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Post by Yaffles on May 9, 2017 18:42:06 GMT
In FN news, Marion Maréchal-Le Pen retires from politics and will resign all her political offices tomorrow. Jean-Marie Le Pen calls that desertion. Good job - one less Le Pen in politics can only be a good thing. |
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Post by John Chanin on May 9, 2017 19:28:19 GMT
Not so. Economic liberalism comes from...surprise, surprise, liberals. Who are not of the left, as the adoption of economic liberalism by those who place themselves on the Right confirms. In fact both the right and the left have backed protectionism in certain circumstances. But economic liberalism has had its influence on both Tory and Labour parties too. Indeed, protectionism is a traditional 19th century Conservative position (Liberals were the free traders), and fx. the military dictatorship of South Korea and the KMT regime in Taiwan were protectionist when building up their economies. A genuine Conservative is pragmatic on trade, whatever is thought to benefit the national interest is preferable. Socialists and Social Democrats are also traditionally pragmatic on trade, so both the left and the right occasionally implement protectionist policies, whereas Liberals have an ideological commitment to free trade. It is so good having @odo on this site to give us an independent external view on these political spats. Nothing promotes reflection more than beiong able to see ourselves as others see us. |
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mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 23,761
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Post by mboy on May 9, 2017 19:40:11 GMT
Conservatives are historically a reactionary grouping that positions itself in the direction required to best block the progressive party of the day. When the progressive party was also a free-market trade party, the Tories were a protectionist party. When that progressive party was replaced by a party that was protectionist, the Tories became a free-market party.
In former communist countries, the conservatives are essentially socialists. In France, the conservatives are increasingly like Le Pen - secularists who hate religion; while in Islamic countries the conservatives are the opposite.
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maxque
Non-Aligned
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Post by maxque on May 9, 2017 21:34:46 GMT
Conservatives are historically a reactionary grouping that positions itself in the direction required to best block the progressive party of the day. When the progressive party was also a free-market trade party, the Tories were a protectionist party. When that progressive party was replaced by a party that was protectionist, the Tories became a free-market party. In former communist countries, the conservatives are essentially socialists. In France, the conservatives are increasingly like Le Pen - secularists who hate religion; while in Islamic countries the conservatives are the opposite. Nonsense. Most "Republicans"are very cautious on gay marriage because they don't want to offend the Church and the "Manif pour tous". |
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Post by mrpastelito on May 10, 2017 18:47:58 GMT
In FN news, Marion Maréchal-Le Pen retires from politics and will resign all her political offices tomorrow. Oh no  |
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neilm
Non-Aligned
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Post by neilm on May 10, 2017 23:36:12 GMT
That is indeed a sad day.
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mboy
Liberal
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Post by mboy on May 11, 2017 9:35:32 GMT
Seriously? She's a fucking loon who makes Marine Le Pen seem cuddly. She's hot, I'll grant you, but whereas Marine has moved into UKIP territory, Marion is still very much in BNP territory.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on May 11, 2017 11:39:15 GMT
Marion is not exactly BNP. She's old-fashioned, ultra-montanist, Maurrassian, all that jazz. Catholic supremacism.
Vichyist rather than fascist if you will. Not that that's better, mind.
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Post by mrpastelito on May 11, 2017 14:57:37 GMT
Marion is not exactly BNP. She's old-fashioned, ultra-montanist, Maurrassian, all that jazz. Catholic supremacism. Vichyist rather than fascist if you will. Not that that's better, mind. She's a modern reactionary, and that's what I like about her. |
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
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Post by john07 on May 11, 2017 15:38:36 GMT
Marion is not exactly BNP. She's old-fashioned, ultra-montanist, Maurrassian, all that jazz. Catholic supremacism. Vichyist rather than fascist if you will. Not that that's better, mind. In other words a French style fascist. We tend to equate Fascism with German type Nazism. The Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, and French variants were very different. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on May 11, 2017 15:48:36 GMT
Marion is not exactly BNP. She's old-fashioned, ultra-montanist, Maurrassian, all that jazz. Catholic supremacism. Vichyist rather than fascist if you will. Not that that's better, mind. In other words a French style fascist. We tend to equate Fascism with German type Nazism. The Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, and French variants were very different. Absolutely. And arguably pre-dates actual fascism, if we consider the Dreyfus Affair, Drumont, Boulanger etc. |
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mboy
Liberal
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Post by mboy on May 11, 2017 16:13:58 GMT
Marion is not exactly BNP. She's old-fashioned, ultra-montanist, Maurrassian, all that jazz. Catholic supremacism. Vichyist rather than fascist if you will. Not that that's better, mind. In other words a French style fascist. We tend to equate Fascism with German type Nazism. The Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, and French variants were very different. She's much nastier than Portuguese fascism, if you can even call Salazar a "fascist". |
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polupolu
Lib Dem
Liberal (Democrat). Socially Liberal, Economically Keynesian.
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Post by polupolu on May 11, 2017 16:24:53 GMT
Indeed, protectionism is a traditional 19th century Conservative position (Liberals were the free traders), and fx. the military dictatorship of South Korea and the KMT regime in Taiwan were protectionist when building up their economies. A genuine Conservative is pragmatic on trade, whatever is thought to benefit the national interest is preferable. Socialists and Social Democrats are also traditionally pragmatic on trade, so both the left and the right occasionally implement protectionist policies, whereas Liberals have an ideological commitment to free trade. Spot on Odo. In the Liberal world view, trade (conducted on anything like a level playing field) is considered to be co-operative and "plus-sum", where both sides profit. Other political philosophies (especially nationalistic ones) tend to take a more competitive or "Mercantilist" view - that trade tends towards being zero-sum - where you only gain at someone else's expense (of course, if they consider they have an advantage, they call it free trade and are in favour of it). With a Mercantilist US president it will be interesting to see what happens to the world economy in the future. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on May 14, 2017 16:01:28 GMT
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on May 15, 2017 6:53:57 GMT
An old face reappears. Jean-Pierre Raffarin turned up at a summit as Macron's proxy this weekend, and it's rumoured he will be the next Foreign Minister.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 8:03:31 GMT
An old face reappears. Jean-Pierre Raffarin turned up at a summit as Macron's proxy this weekend, and it's rumoured he will be the next Foreign Minister. In French politics old faces never go away. As de Gaulle said on seeing Mitterrand pop up at the Liberation - "Oh no, not YOU again!" |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 13:02:15 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 15:29:56 GMT
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Post by carlton43 on May 17, 2017 16:07:00 GMT
I like it. Monsieur Hulot is the Green Minister when he gets back from holiday. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 16:34:55 GMT
There are 22 ministers in the new cabinet (11 men and 11 women). Only 13 of them are from political parties.
Of the 13 party members 5 are from LREM, 2 from MoDem, 2 from PS, 2 from PRG and 2 from LR (they are both ex-LR now as the party has expelled them).
Only 4 of the cabinet members have previous experience as ministers (Bayrou, Girardin, Le Drian and Le Maire)
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