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Post by Tangent on Oct 20, 2015 9:08:12 GMT
And indeed most of the democratic world does this kind of progressive booth level declaration for their elections. It is we who are weird. Indeed. The way we count votes is based on the paternalistic idea that if we know exactly how each polling district has voted we may start a revolution because village X might have made the difference between parties A and B winning a particular constituency. For example a big town votes Labour by 50 votes and a village in the same constituency votes Conservative by 100 votes thus overriding political sentiment in the main settlement. By keeping the individual polling district results secret everyone can pretend this type of scenario never happens, even though everyone knows it must do. Originally, it was a way of defeating the 'feudal screw'. In the days when landowners took an active political role, they could work out which of their tenants in a village were most likely to have voted a certain way. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2015 9:33:44 GMT
Fascinating to see the Conservatives winning 11 of 13 seats in and around Quebec City. The two they missed were Louis-Herbert and Quebec itself. Indeed, Quebec riding now has a Liberal for the first time since 1984. |
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mboy
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Post by mboy on Oct 20, 2015 9:42:38 GMT
The latent conservatism of nationalist / separatist sentiment shining through. It's no surprise that Harper's "They're not like us" rhetoric against Muslims worked on those who have spent decades ramping up cultural differences and stirring up social division. Worth bearing in mind the separatists in Catalonia are also latent conservatives.
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The Bishop
Labour
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Post by The Bishop on Oct 20, 2015 9:45:50 GMT
Trudeaumania 2: Electric Boogaloo Fianna Pasok Returns. Or as I said a few days ago, Agent Ignatieff ultimately failed. |
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Harry Hayfield
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Oct 20, 2015 9:50:38 GMT
It turns out that all these are "preliminary" results and the actual election will not be "verified" until at least the end of February next year
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2015 10:02:37 GMT
Or as I said a few days ago, Agent Ignatieff ultimately failed. His old riding of Etobicoke Lakeshore incidentally went back to the Liberals with a 20% margin. |
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Post by Ghyl Tarvoke on Oct 20, 2015 10:05:59 GMT
Trudeau ran to Mulcair's left in the same way that Clegg ran to Brown's left - i.e. in some issues but clearly not on the whole platform. But whatever the details on that, there was no surge in Canada for anti-capitalist fantasy politics, despite them being in recession. Are you seriously suggesting that Tom "permanent surplus" Mulcair was an anti-capitalist choice? |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Oct 20, 2015 10:11:34 GMT
Ah right, so Kendallism wasn't actually a smashing triumph at the ballot box. Shocked to the very core of my being, I am  |
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Richard Allen
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Post by Richard Allen on Oct 20, 2015 10:14:28 GMT
Trudeau ran to Mulcair's left in the same way that Clegg ran to Brown's left - i.e. in some issues but clearly not on the whole platform. But whatever the details on that, there was no surge in Canada for anti-capitalist fantasy politics, despite them being in recession. Are you seriously suggesting that Tom "permanent surplus" Mulcair was an anti-capitalist choice? Believing in always running a surplus has nothing to do with whether or not you are a capitalist. There are plenty of free marketeers happy to run deficits and at least some socialists who like to balance the budget. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Oct 20, 2015 10:16:59 GMT
Are you seriously suggesting that Tom "permanent surplus" Mulcair was an anti-capitalist choice? Believing in always running a surplus has nothing to do with whether or not you are a capitalist. There are plenty of free marketeers happy to run deficits and at least some socialists who like to balance the budget. Well, quite. It's not as if Labour haven't embraced austerity in the past. |
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Richard Allen
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Post by Richard Allen on Oct 20, 2015 10:17:06 GMT
Although I crossed NDP as the party I would have supported Trudeau actually fought the election to the left of Mulcairs stance. Why didn't he learn from Jack Layton who fought from a strong left wing platform and got an excellent NDP result last time? Probably true to some degree but as I said last night the NDP's success last time was a least partially based on Layton's personal popularity which was far from entirely down to his political positioning. |
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Richard Allen
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Post by Richard Allen on Oct 20, 2015 10:18:38 GMT
Believing in always running a surplus has nothing to do with whether or not you are a capitalist. There are plenty of free marketeers happy to run deficits and at least some socialists who like to balance the budget. Well, quite. It's not as if Labour haven't embraced austerity in the past. It always surprises me that there aren't more on the left who object to paying billions a year in interest to "fat cat bankers". |
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The Bishop
Labour
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Post by The Bishop on Oct 20, 2015 10:24:29 GMT
Are you seriously suggesting that Tom "permanent surplus" Mulcair was an anti-capitalist choice? Believing in always running a surplus has nothing to do with whether or not you are a capitalist. There are plenty of free marketeers happy to run deficits and at least some socialists who like to balance the budget. Oh I agree there, one of the reasons McDonnell got into such a mess over Osborne's gimmick charter is arguably that much of the hard left is actually rather fiscally conservative (being big on Keynsianism has often been rather more a "soft left" thing) Though their premises still differ obviously from the likes of Kendall and Hopi Sen (its called "tax and spend" for a reason) |
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mboy
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Post by mboy on Oct 20, 2015 10:35:47 GMT
Trudeau ran to Mulcair's left in the same way that Clegg ran to Brown's left - i.e. in some issues but clearly not on the whole platform. But whatever the details on that, there was no surge in Canada for anti-capitalist fantasy politics, despite them being in recession. Are you seriously suggesting that Tom "permanent surplus" Mulcair was an anti-capitalist choice? Nope. I'm suggesting that conservatives can be defeated by moderate progressive liberals without any need for anti-capitalist garbage. |
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The Bishop
Labour
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Post by The Bishop on Oct 20, 2015 10:43:35 GMT
"leading Blairite suggests Kendall inspired by Enver Hoxha"  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2015 10:46:22 GMT
Fascinating to see the Conservatives winning 11 of 13 seats in and around Quebec City. The two they missed were Louis-Herbert and Quebec itself. I think that has always been one of the more right-wing and conservative parts of Quebec, so it isn't necessarily that surprising. It's known for its francophone cultural chauvinism and economic conservatism, both of which the Tories play to successfully. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2015 10:58:23 GMT
I'm off to bed now. Just leave with this thought. This election result was the polar opposite of our result this year (apart from the unexpected majority which was the case in both countries). Here, with an uninspiring leader and incompetent campaign the opposition completely failed to combat the negative fear based campaign of a main government party that really wasn't very liked. In Canada, rather than falling into the Tories trap, a leader with real charisma sold a message which took on the Tories campaign of division and fear and swept them aside. The standard of the two Tories campaigns was very similar, shows what you can do when there's something decent to take it on. Bye bye Harper. Same Conservative campaign, but different electorates. The demographics of Canada - particularly in the urban areas, the small 'L' liberal political culture and the lack of a right-wing tabloid press, makes a Crosbyite strategy less likely to be effective than in Britain or Australia. Also, Harper had been in power for a decade and his oil-based economic strategy has run into conspicuous trouble. Let's not neglect the fundamentals (or forget that our own election in 2020 will be similarly influenced by fundamentals). |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Oct 20, 2015 11:18:11 GMT
Also worth remembering that only a few months ago, the Liberals weren't doing that great in either polls or real elections.
Something that might be noted by those over here who are already calling the outcome of the 2020 or even (God help us) 2025 GEs with utter confidence at present.
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Post by greenhert on Oct 20, 2015 11:31:09 GMT
Notable district results (in my personal opinion) from Elections Canada: Toronto-Danforth (held by former NDP leader Jack Layton until he died in 2011):narrowly gained by the Liberals. Saanich-Gulf Islands: Easily held by Elizabeth May with a 35.1% majority Thunder Bay-Superior North: Bruce Hyer (ex-NDP, now Green) only manages 4th place with 13.8%. Very disappointing  Avignon-La Mitis-Matane-Matepedia: Forces et Democratie leader Jean Francois-Fortin polls 11.6%, coming a poor 4th. The Bloc Quebecois do not even come close to regaining it. Montcalm: Terrible performance by Manon Pierreault, who defected to Forces et Democratie after being expelled from the NDP-she came last with 1.2%. The riding returns to BQ hands. Calgary Heritage: Easily retained by Stephen Harper, although his vote share falls from 74% to 63.8%. Most of the other ridings in Calgary were held convincingly by the Conservatives, except for the Skyview and Centre divisions which were Liberal gains. Outremont: Held by Thomas Mulcair without much of a problem (majority of 10.2%). Papineau: Justin Trudeau increases his Liberal majority to 25.7%. The BQ vote share is halved, which partly explains why the NDP did not fare that badly. Laurier-Sainte-Marie: Gilles Duceppe fails to regain his former riding from NDP MP Helene Laverdiere, and actually fares worse than in 2011. Etobicoke-Lakeshore: Lost by former Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff in 2011, it is regained by the Liberals with a 21.5% majority. The other two ridings in Etobicoke are also home runs for the Liberals. Victoria: The Greens finish a good second to the NDP; they manage 33% to the NDP's 42.2%. Rather high turnout by Canadian standards as well. |
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Post by Tangent on Oct 20, 2015 12:24:40 GMT
Originally, it was a way of defeating the 'feudal screw'. In the days when landowners took an active political role, they could work out which of their tenants in a village were most likely to have voted a certain way. That is rubbish. That long ago most would not have had a vote and the votes were not by secret ballot anyway. The term was mainly used in the period after the Third Reform Act, but before 1918, when you had a large working-class electorate enfranchised by household suffrage, and the Ballot had already been brought in, but traditional methods of electoral management still existed. Bribery did not really die out until after 1918, for instance, although it became increasingly confined to a few borough constituencies with smaller, poorer electorates. |
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