Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,020
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Post by Khunanup on Dec 17, 2015 23:34:51 GMT
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2015 23:48:16 GMT
I was tempted. Pp aren't really my cup of tea. |
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Dec 17, 2015 23:56:30 GMT
I was tempted. Pp aren't really my cup of tea. Me neither. I abstained. |
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,035
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Post by Sibboleth on Dec 18, 2015 0:12:29 GMT
An attractive set of options for the Spanish electorate. Two legacy parties that more than flirt with being outright criminal conspiracies and who have demonstrated staggering incompetence in government on multiple occasions, a creepy ultra Left cult organisation, a rag-tag-and-bobtail collection of mindless populist morons, various shades of regionalist/seperatist parties all of which stand primarily for GIVES US MOAR MONIES, a Neostalinist party that is basically an unfunny version of the KKE and a group of extremely tedious centralist whingers.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2015 0:16:13 GMT
An attractive set of options for the Spanish electorate. Two legacy parties that more than flirt with being outright criminal conspiracies and who have demonstrated staggering incompetence in government on multiple occasions, a creepy ultra Left cult organisation, a rag-tag-and-bobtail collection of mindless populist morons, various shades of regionalist/seperatist parties all of which stand primarily for GIVES US MOAR MONIES, a Neostalinist party that is basically an unfunny version of the KKE and a group of extremely tedious centralist whingers. The Iberian peninsula is home to my all time favourite dictator though. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2015 7:41:57 GMT
In Malaga for the weekend, lots of PSOE posters, but Podemos had street stalls... blasting out 'Imagine' as well as 'Les Mis' .... Not much evidence of any PP campaigning? The city of Malaga has traditionally been strong for them (Andalusia is a PSOE stronghold but the real socialist strength is in the rural areas). No, surprisingly. A few posters, including some on taxi doors, but apart from that ..... we we were mainly in the central/ old quarter though |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2015 7:46:25 GMT
An attractive set of options for the Spanish electorate. Two legacy parties that more than flirt with being outright criminal conspiracies and who have demonstrated staggering incompetence in government on multiple occasions, a creepy ultra Left cult organisation, a rag-tag-and-bobtail collection of mindless populist morons, various shades of regionalist/seperatist parties all of which stand primarily for GIVES US MOAR MONIES, a Neostalinist party that is basically an unfunny version of the KKE and a group of extremely tedious centralist whingers. The Iberian peninsula is home to my all time favourite dictator though.  |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Dec 18, 2015 8:52:37 GMT
Presumably Salazar
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2015 9:10:58 GMT
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2015 12:08:35 GMT
An attractive set of options for the Spanish electorate. Two legacy parties that more than flirt with being outright criminal conspiracies and who have demonstrated staggering incompetence in government on multiple occasions, a creepy ultra Left cult organisation, a rag-tag-and-bobtail collection of mindless populist morons, various shades of regionalist/seperatist parties all of which stand primarily for GIVES US MOAR MONIES, a Neostalinist party that is basically an unfunny version of the KKE and a group of extremely tedious centralist whingers. Spanish politics is still much better than Italian and, arguably, French politics. You could say that is a low bar, but Spain doesn't have a right wing populist party, and PODEMOS has some potential of reinvigorating politics, as does Ciudadanos. Spanish populism has by and large been more benevolent than in many other crisis ridden European countries. Catalan separatists are more focused on "give us independence" than "give us more money".  Describing PODEMOS as "ultra Left" isn't really fair. It has a right-wing more focused on democratisation/decentralisation + empowering social movements than far left policies. Even its left wing is hardly extreme. PP is more authoritarian than most European Conservative parties and has a nasty right wing. Unlike the Portuguese right it has had trouble being fully democratized. It share this problem with ND in Greece. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2015 13:26:56 GMT
PP is more authoritarian than most European Conservative parties and has a nasty right wing. Unlike the Portuguese right it has had trouble being fully democratized. It share this problem with ND in Greece. People talk about PP being "not fully democratised", but where's the evidence for this? They are socially conservative and centre-right - and I know their heritage and Manuel Fraga's background as a minister under Franco - but I don't see much evidence of goose-stepping fascism. I personally admire Mariano Rajoy's uncompromising, no-nonsense approach to separatism. It isn't a matter of "goose stepping fascism", but more a general approach to civil rights, counter terrorism (dirty war against ETA), police brutality and the role of state + nostalgia for the Franco era (quite often displayed by their youth wing). Having an uncompromising attitude towards separatism in a multinational state is always a bit problematic. If a majority in a minority country/region wants to secede they should be given that right in a modern democracy - otherwise you quickly end in a non-democratic situation. And big parts of PP don't acknowledge that. As in most countries with a Conservative party that doesn't have a Hard Right or right wing populist party, their right wing is far from being "centre-right" There is the gag law as an example of problematic legislation: www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/12/spain-security-law-protesters-freedom-expression |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Dec 18, 2015 16:56:27 GMT
An attractive set of options for the Spanish electorate. Two legacy parties that more than flirt with being outright criminal conspiracies and who have demonstrated staggering incompetence in government on multiple occasions, a creepy ultra Left cult organisation, a rag-tag-and-bobtail collection of mindless populist morons, various shades of regionalist/seperatist parties all of which stand primarily for GIVES US MOAR MONIES, a Neostalinist party that is basically an unfunny version of the KKE and a group of extremely tedious centralist whingers. The Iberian peninsula is home to my all time favourite dictator though. Salazar is possibly the most misunderstood dictator of the last century. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Dec 18, 2015 16:58:32 GMT
Anyone else looking forward to a useful-idiot article explaining how the brave Catalans are making a stand for smaller nations and making parallels with the SNP and Plaid, despite ignoring the fact that they effectively are most concerned about not sharing their wealth?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2015 17:16:24 GMT
Anyone else looking forward to a useful-idiot article explaining how the brave Catalans are making a stand for smaller nations and making parallels with the SNP and Plaid, despite ignoring the fact that they effectively are most concerned about not sharing their wealth? Isn't that what the snp (ludicrously) claim to be doing. |
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,035
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Post by Sibboleth on Dec 18, 2015 17:28:50 GMT
Depends who they're talking to, doesn't it.
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,795 
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Post by john07 on Dec 18, 2015 17:35:30 GMT
Anyone else looking forward to a useful-idiot article explaining how the brave Catalans are making a stand for smaller nations and making parallels with the SNP and Plaid, despite ignoring the fact that they effectively are most concerned about not sharing their wealth? Indeed remember their 'Rich Scots or Poor Britons' slogan from the 1970s? |
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Dec 18, 2015 17:37:44 GMT
Anyone else looking forward to a useful-idiot article explaining how the brave Catalans are making a stand for smaller nations and making parallels with the SNP and Plaid, despite ignoring the fact that they effectively are most concerned about not sharing their wealth? Seems reasonable enough an aim. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2015 18:21:34 GMT
Anyone else looking forward to a useful-idiot article explaining how the brave Catalans are making a stand for smaller nations and making parallels with the SNP and Plaid, despite ignoring the fact that they effectively are most concerned about not sharing their wealth? Seems reasonable enough an aim. Yeah, if you genuinely do not feel as part of a nation there is little reason why you should share your wealth with them. Besides it is hard to protect the Catalan language and increase its use to descendants of Spanish speaking immigrants as long as Catalonia is part of the Spanish state. If Catalan was the only official language its position would be stronger and more people would switch to it as their everyday language. It is the native language of only 35-36% now. Bilingualism may be practical, but it gradually undermines Catalan. Spain has also in recent years challenged its status as the first language of instruction in schools. It is hard to preserve a minority language as dominant in your region in a bilingual/multilingual country with a dominant language. |
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observer
Non-Aligned
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Member is Online
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Post by observer on Dec 20, 2015 10:42:43 GMT
My Spanish wife reports the latest opinion poll in Spain:
PP 29%
PSOE 20%
Ciudadanos 19%
Podemos 17%
How the mighty are fallen
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dizz
Labour
Posts: 1,088
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Post by dizz on Dec 20, 2015 12:37:27 GMT
So moving on from the result (!!!!) where it looks like the PP will get the most seats, will they go into coalition with the C's as I can't see anything happening with the P's & something with PSOE would finish the latter.
Also, if PP plus C's are short of a majority (most polls have them such though it could be tight) then where does the other support from? Not from Catalonia as it will have too many strings attached! Maybe the PNB & UPD & the Canary parties but that starts to look very unstable.
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