carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on May 31, 2024 8:33:38 GMT
There is nothing 'honourable' about standing in a seat where you are near certain to lose just satisfy the gloating lefty classes like you. Nor is it at all dishonourable to use commonsense and note reality by making arrangements at least two years ago for a change of career and a retirement from a seat one is certain to lose. Grow up! There's a loyalty to your activists to face the defeat with them. Along with Rees Mogg he knows he could be the scalp of the night, but standing means in a close national result that they could edge this constituency, however hypothetical such a result currently looks. It's also a thankless time to face defeat and seeing those you poured time and social standing in to help just abandon you when the job opportunities dry up is a gut punch. Younger MPs deserted associations full of their supposed friends and IDS didn't. That's to his credit. Of course I understand that position but I do not empathize with it, as you by now know. Many on the left are both tribal and doctrinaire and see the MP as part of the organic beehive and a component owing everything to 'the movement', 'socialism', 'the Party' and see the duty of selfless dedication to the cause to the denial of self. I reject all that tosh utterly. Some of you on the Right are rose-tinted-specs Romantics with elements of lofty idealism and dedicated loyalty. I don't have much time for that either. The MP is an individual and first thought must always be for self and family, income stream, preserving assets and continuation career. The party a long way second. That is perhaps a minority view here but most certainly the majority view in the ordinary public; and it should be so. The captain must see to his passengers and then his crew and then himself. Going down with his ship is a poor and it is a romantic notion. If the ship is sinking get everybody off and into the boats with as much food, water and absolute necessities as it is safe to carry. Send messages and positions and apply the best seamanship in getting the boats to land or another vessel. In politics it is less serious but much the same. Secure what can be secured. Make the best of it. Hold events to make farewells. Give personal thanks. Write personal letters. Try to get a good replacement and coach that candidate with all that you know. But crucially have a good sound exit strategy well in place as soon as you see the necessity. In present circumstances in the Conservative party I would have been planning from the moment Johnson lost the full support of the majority of his MPs. I would have everything in place by the end of the Truss fiasco so as to secure my family future. I would not announce too early to avoid questioning my motives but have the replacement 'in place'. Why go through a campaign to a certain loss and having to stand with a triumphal victor and then give the second and gracious speech of defeat. I would produce a damn fine gracious speech in defeat but I don't want to! Our supporters don't need me there to massage their psyches or wipe their tears. They can cheer the new replacement and clap that speech. Too much is made of all this. Rat runs, chicken runs and such like. In the great days people teemed and laded all the time, moving constituencies for a more secure majority, nicer area, closer to London, wealthier patrons, etc. Most of the greats had represented numerous constituencies for divers reasons. Nothing wrong with that. If I was IDS at that age I would retire or move to a better adjacent seat in Essex. I definitely would not campaign in the certain knowledge of defeat at that age. And the odds off chance of holding just one more seat makes no difference at all when in opposition, or at all unless the GE is a knife edge contest. |
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Post by norflondon on May 31, 2024 11:04:15 GMT
Tatler is not on the NEC true but she might as well be. Close to Starmer, she is on the NEC panel deciding who is a good Labour candidate or not, and co chair of Lab To Win.
This person was imposed unilaterally on a CLP in clearly a disgraceful last-minute stitch-up. Keir Starmer loyalists parachuted into safe seats everywhere! And it does not appear to be a purge/ cancelling of socialists, more like one of purge/cancelling Palestinian rights supporters.
I don't think there's a single new candidate who is a friend of Palestine and who's been critical of the current Israel govt that has been given a seat. And only half a handful have been allowed to stay : Burgon, Begum, Shah.
The message is clear: STFU about Isr/Pal.
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Post by Merseymike on May 31, 2024 11:10:59 GMT
Tatler is not on the NEC true but she might as well be. Close to Starmer, she is on the NEC panel deciding who is a good Labour candidate or not, and co chair of Lab To Win. This person was imposed unilaterally on a CLP in clearly a disgraceful last-minute stitch-up. Keir Starmer loyalists parachuted into safe seats everywhere! And it does not appear to be a purge/ cancelling of socialists, more like one of purge/cancelling Palestinian rights supporters. I don't think there's a single new candidate who is a friend of Palestine and who's been critical of the current Israel govt that has been given a seat. And only half a handful have been allowed to stay : Burgon, Begum, Shah. The message is clear: STFU about Isr/Pal. One of many issues which I wouldn't vote Labour. |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on May 31, 2024 11:27:23 GMT
Tatler is not on the NEC true but she might as well be. Close to Starmer, she is on the NEC panel deciding who is a good Labour candidate or not, and co chair of Lab To Win. This person was imposed unilaterally on a CLP in clearly a disgraceful last-minute stitch-up. Keir Starmer loyalists parachuted into safe seats everywhere! And it does not appear to be a purge/ cancelling of socialists, more like one of purge/cancelling Palestinian rights supporters. I don't think there's a single new candidate who is a friend of Palestine and who's been critical of the current Israel govt that has been given a seat. And only half a handful have been allowed to stay : Burgon, Begum, Shah. The message is clear: STFU about Isr/Pal. No, she's not on the NEC panel, because only NEC members are. You're just flat-out wrong about that. She is on the NCC, which is a different body entirely. It deals with suspensions of membership, not with candidate selections. |
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Post by michaelarden on May 31, 2024 11:35:05 GMT
The message is clear: STFU about Isr/Pal. I don't think that's the clear message - more STFU about the plight of Palestinians and support Netanyahu. |
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Post by matureleft on May 31, 2024 11:52:51 GMT
The message ought to be if you are going to criticise Israeli policy don’t use antisemitic tropes and don’t share or like things that you haven’t read carefully for that.
But the other message is recognise the limits of UK reach. Nobody listens to our opinions on this and we have no leverage on the subject. Fine to have a view but if it dominates your agenda then how are you going to serve as an MP (or a councillor)?
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Jamie
Non-Aligned
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Post by Jamie on May 31, 2024 13:46:50 GMT
The message ought to be if you are going to criticise Israeli policy don’t use antisemitic tropes and don’t share or like things that you haven’t read carefully for that. But the other message is recognise the limits of UK reach. Nobody listens to our opinions on this and we have no leverage on the subject. Fine to have a view but if it dominates your agenda then how are you going to serve as an MP (or a councillor)? Without wishing to derail the thread the UK has substantial albeit symbolic leaveage on the subject. I personally would object to a represenative i supported being in favour of ethnic cleanising, regardless of the location. None of which should change what should be a straight forward labour gain from a "notorious" public figure. |
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carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on May 31, 2024 13:59:53 GMT
With the current crop in the political establishment, did we expect the GE to be anything other than a race to the bottom? Having said that, I bet Starmer is loving this opportunity to disavow his Labour party from the left. He doesn't need massive majorities in urban constituencies if he can hoover up floating voters in Conservative seats. That's the point. Starmer won't be better. So we have the so-called Starmer's Labour and the Tories fighting in a sack of ferrets. Now Mike, I think that the party would prefer the term 'sack of mink' for a bit more class. Ferrets can be very companionable and make quite good pets and can be made to work very hard indeed. Whereas mink are nasty vicious bastards until skinned. |
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Post by batman on May 31, 2024 21:30:39 GMT
there is of course more than one way to skin a mink.
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Post by Merseymike on May 31, 2024 22:01:50 GMT
That's the point. Starmer won't be better. So we have the so-called Starmer's Labour and the Tories fighting in a sack of ferrets. Now Mike, I think that the party would prefer the term 'sack of mink' for a bit more class. Ferrets can be very companionable and make quite good pets and can be made to work very hard indeed. Whereas mink are nasty vicious bastards until skinned. Perhaps the mink are Labour? Indeed, the ferrets might help IDS! |
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Post by kevinf on May 31, 2024 22:16:54 GMT
there is of course more than one way to skin a mink. Hopefully only after it has been humanely killed!! |
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Post by willpower3 on Jun 1, 2024 12:35:18 GMT
I'm predicting this as a shock hold.
Why?
Don't underestimate the determination of a quiet man.
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Post by norflondon on Jun 1, 2024 12:54:06 GMT
If Shaheen stands as IND yes, IDS will win probably
Lab party office in Chingford paint sprayed overnight "Isreal (sic) lobby work for us"
Deplorable and unacceptable.
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graham
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Post by graham on Jun 1, 2024 13:09:30 GMT
If Shaheen stands as IND yes, IDS will win probably Lab party office in Chingford paint sprayed overnight "Isreal (sic) lobby work for us" Deplorable and unacceptable. She could reasonably present herself as 'The 2019 Labour candidate who almost ousted IDS. Let me finish the job.' Hopefully Corbyn would address any campaign rally organised in her support. Nominations close in six days time . When that deadline has passed , perhaps Diane Abbott and other Campaign members will come out in her support. |
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Post by finsobruce on Jun 1, 2024 14:18:37 GMT
If Shaheen stands as IND yes, IDS will win probably Lab party office in Chingford paint sprayed overnight "Isreal (sic) lobby work for us" Deplorable and unacceptable. She could reasonably present herself as 'The 2019 Labour candidate who almost ousted IDS. Let me finish the job.' Hopefully Corbyn would address any campaign rally organised in her support. Nominations close in six days time . When that deadline has passed , perhaps Diane Abbott and other Campaign members will come out in her support.As you know, only if they wanted to be expelled themselves. |
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Post by finsobruce on Jun 1, 2024 14:19:10 GMT
If Shaheen stands as IND yes, IDS will win probably Lab party office in Chingford paint sprayed overnight "Isreal (sic) lobby work for us" Deplorable and unacceptable.But entirely predictable. |
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Post by mrsir on Jun 1, 2024 14:24:33 GMT
I don’t think she would do that well to be honest.
The Muslim population is sizeable but not massive here and it doesn’t seem like the sort of seat that will have many Corbynite Guardian reader types either.
The Conservative vote has been resilient here but it will be a comfortable Labour gain whether or not that woman stands as an independent.
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graham
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Post by graham on Jun 1, 2024 14:54:17 GMT
She could reasonably present herself as 'The 2019 Labour candidate who almost ousted IDS. Let me finish the job.' Hopefully Corbyn would address any campaign rally organised in her support. Nominations close in six days time . When that deadline has passed , perhaps Diane Abbott and other Campaign members will come out in her support.As you know, only if they wanted to be expelled themselves. But too late to deselect or replace them! Some will likely be entering their last Parliament and not be too bothered about such a prospect. If the polls tighten, Starmer might yet need their votes. Expulsions are often not permanent - eg Aneurin Bevan - Stafford Cripps - and Luciana Berger. |
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Jun 1, 2024 15:06:00 GMT
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Post by finsobruce on Jun 1, 2024 15:06:07 GMT
As you know, only if they wanted to be expelled themselves. But too late to deselect or replace them! Some will likely be entering their last Parliament and not be too bothered about such a prospect. If the polls tighten, Starmer might yet need their votes. Expulsions are often not permanent - eg Aneurin Bevan - Stafford Cripps - and Luciana Berger. No , really? I strongly suspect that they might not decide to dance to your tune though.
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