Chingford and Woodford Green

[Merseymike]

May 30, 2024 12:57:25 GMT jakegb said:

May 30, 2024 12:28:43 GMT Merseymike said:

Given you are right wing, are planning to vote 'Labour'?

More centrist than right wing. 
I am pleased that Lab has moved more towards the centre, though I accept that recent candidate candidate selections/suspensions have been a real mess.  

I have voted for a wide range of parties in the past. I couldn't contemplate voting for Lab in 17 and 19. 
Yet to fully make up my mind in 24 ... we'll see how the election campaign progresses. 

For me, I voted 2017 and 2019, but Labour - certainly not!

[Sg1]

May 30, 2024 12:38:05 GMT carlton43 said:

May 29, 2024 18:13:13 GMT mrsir said:

The Times reporting that Shaheen will be suspended.

Good - she is seriously unpleasant.

This gets better and better.  Both parties with a complete death wish.  I am starting to enjoy this GE after all.

With the current crop in the political establishment, did we expect the GE to be anything other than a race to the bottom?

Having said that, I bet Starmer is loving this opportunity to disavow his Labour party from the left. He doesn't need massive majorities in urban constituencies if he can hoover up floating voters in Conservative seats.

[Merseymike]

May 30, 2024 13:31:40 GMT Sg1 said:

May 30, 2024 12:38:05 GMT carlton43 said:

This gets better and better.  Both parties with a complete death wish.  I am starting to enjoy this GE after all.

With the current crop in the political establishment, did we expect the GE to be anything other than a race to the bottom?

Having said that, I bet Starmer is loving this opportunity to disavow his Labour party from the left. He doesn't need massive majorities in urban constituencies if he can hoover up floating voters in Conservative seats.

That's the point. Starmer won't be better. So we have the so-called Starmer's Labour and the Tories fighting in a sack of ferrets.

[John Chanin]

May 30, 2024 13:31:40 GMT Sg1 said:

Having said that, I bet Starmer is loving this opportunity to disavow his Labour party from the left. He doesn't need massive majorities in urban constituencies if he can hoover up floating voters in Conservative seats.

While this is true, it may be storing up trouble for the future, of the same sort that the Conservatives are now facing.  In 2019 the Conservatives picked up a lot of non traditional support while pissing off a good section of normally loyal supporters.  Unsurprisingly these new transactional voters are peeling off while staunch traditional conservatives are not coming back.

Labour may find the same come the next General Election, as the minority of its normally solid support currently being alienated fails to return, while the conservative voters currently being attracted return to a more normal voting pattern.

[Foggy]

May 30, 2024 12:12:17 GMT carlton43 said:

May 29, 2024 17:00:36 GMT Foggy said:

I don't think Smith, for all his faults, is motivated by the payout for standing again rather than retiring. And considering his previous career he hardly needs to prove his bravery either but his course of action in re-offering is at least honourable when compared with many of his colleagues.

When he was LOTO the thought of the Tories losing this was unfathomable so the change in voting behaviour here really is largely down to demographics.

There is nothing 'honourable' about standing in a seat where you are near certain to lose just satisfy the gloating lefty classes like you.  Nor is it at all dishonourable to use commonsense and note reality by making arrangements at least two years ago for a change of career and a retirement from a seat one is certain to lose.

Have you followed the events of the past 24 hours? It'll still be an uphill struggle against whichever friend of the leadership Labour parachutes in, but circumstances can move quickly and there's now a glimmer of a chance for a hold, which proves how it can be worthwhile not to announce one's retirement in an apparently "unwinnable" constituency two years ahead of time. 

I'm not planning to gloat if Smith loses anyway. I think I was actually being quite conciliatory towards him in the post you quoted. 

[mboy]

Forgot about this - their "Saj Javid is an Uncle Tom" comedy duo:

[carlton43]

May 30, 2024 17:25:01 GMT Foggy said:

May 30, 2024 12:12:17 GMT carlton43 said:

There is nothing 'honourable' about standing in a seat where you are near certain to lose just satisfy the gloating lefty classes like you.  Nor is it at all dishonourable to use commonsense and note reality by making arrangements at least two years ago for a change of career and a retirement from a seat one is certain to lose.

Have you followed the events of the past 24 hours? It'll still be an uphill struggle against whichever friend of the leadership Labour parachutes in, but circumstances can move quickly and there's now a glimmer of a chance for a hold, which proves how it can be worthwhile not to announce one's retirement in an apparently "unwinnable" constituency two years ahead of time. 

I'm not planning to gloat if Smith loses anyway. I think I was actually being quite conciliatory towards him in the post you quoted. 

It was a general reply Foggy and not intended to cause you dismay.  Apologies. 

I think there has to be consideration for party, supporters and constituency officers and workers of course because of their input and out of general common courtesy.  But there is also the internal mood, the domestic/health/ family/future income considerations as well. 

When the calling of a GE comes suddenly months before expectation it concentrates minds and causes rapid responses often without as much time given to them as might have been appropriate. 

My major disagreement was with the formalists trotting out the 'you knew you would be 70 in 2024 years ago and should have acted much sooner' type of mechanistic response of the tribalist party hack.  MPs are not 'creatures of the party' nor employees of party or the electorate.  They are individuals and will be sure to give individual responses and those responses will be based on a raft of ever changing inputs.

I would always do what is best for me and for the family and place that miles ahead of what the party might want.  That is individualistic and perhaps more a rightist than a leftist response.  We use the party and know the party uses us.  We don't worship it or revere it and if it upsets us we can stuff it without remorse or guilt.

[Deleted]

Labour candidate: Brent Cllr. Shama Tatler. It will be interesting to see if Faiza stands as an independent

[right]

May 30, 2024 12:12:17 GMT carlton43 said:

May 29, 2024 17:00:36 GMT Foggy said:

I don't think Smith, for all his faults, is motivated by the payout for standing again rather than retiring. And considering his previous career he hardly needs to prove his bravery either but his course of action in re-offering is at least honourable when compared with many of his colleagues.

When he was LOTO the thought of the Tories losing this was unfathomable so the change in voting behaviour here really is largely down to demographics.

There is nothing 'honourable' about standing in a seat where you are near certain to lose just satisfy the gloating lefty classes like you.  Nor is it at all dishonourable to use commonsense and note reality by making arrangements at least two years ago for a change of career and a retirement from a seat one is certain to lose.

Grow up!

There's a loyalty to your activists to face the defeat with them.

Along with Rees Mogg he knows he could be the scalp of the night, but standing means in a close national result that they could edge this constituency, however hypothetical such a result currently looks.

It's also a thankless time to face defeat and seeing those you poured time and social standing in to help just abandon you when the job opportunities dry up is a gut punch.

Younger MPs deserted associations full of their supposed friends and IDS didn't. That's to his credit.

[Deleted]

IDS was unfairly maligned in the early 2010s - the intentions behind the reforms seemed to make sense to me, as someone living on benefits at the time.

[right]

May 30, 2024 13:31:40 GMT Sg1 said:

May 30, 2024 12:38:05 GMT carlton43 said:

This gets better and better.  Both parties with a complete death wish.  I am starting to enjoy this GE after all.

With the current crop in the political establishment, did we expect the GE to be anything other than a race to the bottom?

Having said that, I bet Starmer is loving this opportunity to disavow his Labour party from the left. He doesn't need massive majorities in urban constituencies if he can hoover up floating voters in Conservative seats.

I don't think Shaheen has enough profile to cut through.

The party machinery believes they'll get a bumper sized majority and have used it as a once in a political lifetime opportunity to purge some MPs and in Shaheen's case future MPs.

[norflondon]

A friend in Brent tells me - and a little digging by me - reveals Tatler is a largely likeable uncontroversial character but undeniably she is a Starmer loyalist and on the right of the party (co chair Labour To Win). An NEC member since 2020, she reportedly is on the three person NEC panel that has excluded a large number of lefties. Is imo almost certain to become an MP, the only thing that could scupper her is if Shaheen stands as she may take 2-3k + votes.

[msc]

May 31, 2024 5:20:38 GMT @weld said:

IDS was unfairly maligned in the early 2010s - the intentions behind the reforms seemed to make sense to me, as someone living on benefits at the time.

As someone who suffered a life changing brain injury shortly before he got the job, I found his time in charge of welfare a Kafkaesque nightmare full of red tape and regulations and frequent resets back to the start instead of getting adequate help.

It was Damian Green who stepped in, sorted that out and helped me towards my current self-employed status so I have a lot of time for him (even if he's made a few mistakes in his life).

[doktorb🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️]

May 31, 2024 4:10:20 GMT @weld said:

Labour candidate: Brent Cllr. Shama Tatler. It will be interesting to see if Faiza stands as an independent

Well she's not happy:

[johnloony]

May 31, 2024 6:32:36 GMT doktorb🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️ said:

May 31, 2024 4:10:20 GMT @weld said:

Labour candidate: Brent Cllr. Shama Tatler. It will be interesting to see if Faiza stands as an independent

Well she's not happy: ]

She has contradicted herself. ”They would rather lose than have a left pro Palestine candidate”? Shurely deciding not to have a “left pro Palestine” candidate is the method of *not*losing?
.

[adlai52]

May 31, 2024 7:23:56 GMT johnloony said:

May 31, 2024 6:32:36 GMT doktorb🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️ said:

Well she's not happy: ]

She has contradicted herself. ”They would rather lose than have a left pro Palestine candidate”? Shurely deciding not to have a “left pro Palestine” candidate is the method of *not*losing?
.

Either she has given up all hope of a route back or she's being very badly advised - this is not the appeal you make if you want the party (and critically your allies within the party) to give you a way back.

I don't know the seat well - but if she continues down this route and runs as an independent, I'm not convinced it makes much of a dent in a seat like Chingford where the national battle will predominate.  

[mboy]

It was only ever a matter of time before 'Zionists' were blamed.

[Pete Whitehead]

Workers Party would be the way for her to go

[andrea]

May 31, 2024 5:23:25 GMT norflondon said:

A friend in Brent tells me - and a little digging by me - reveals Tatler is a largely likeable uncontroversial character but undeniably she is a Starmer loyalist and on the right of the party (co chair Labour To Win). An NEC member since 2020, she reportedly is on the three person NEC panel that has excluded a large number of lefties. Is imo almost certain to become an MP, the only thing that could scupper her is if Shaheen stands as she may take 2-3k + votes.

Tatler is not on the NEC. She wasn't elected in 2020.

✓ Luke Akehurst Labour to Win 21,355 16.5%
✓ Laura Pidcock Grassroots Voice 15,668 12.1%
✓ Johanna Baxter Labour to Win 9,803 7.6%
✓ Gemma Bolton Grassroots Voice 9,596 7.4%
✓ Ann Black Open Labour 7,813 6.0%
✓ Yasmine Dar Grassroots Voice 6,322 4.9%
✓ Mish Rahman Grassroots Voice 5,879 4.5%
✓ Nadia Jama Grassroots Voice 5,707 4.4%
Ann Henderson Grassroots Voice 5,388 4.2%
✓ Gurinder Singh Josan Labour to Win 4,624 3.6%
Dave Anderson Independent 3,289 2.5%
Jermain Jackman Open Labour 3,250 2.5%
Theresa Griffin Tribune Group 2,249 1.7%
Paula Sherriff Tribune Group 2,247 1.7%
Shama Tatler Labour to Win 2,089 1.6%
Roger Silverman Labour Left Alliance 2,072 1.6%
Bodrul Amin Independent 2,066 1.6%
Ekua Bayunu Labour Left Alliance 2,028 1.6%
Matthew Blakemore Independent 1,976 1.5%
Alex Beverley Independent 1,505 1.2%
Michael Payne Labour to Win 1,430 1.1%
Terry Paul Labour to Win 1,316 1.0%
Neeraj Patil Independent 1,219 0.9%
Iram Woolley Independent 1,208 0.9%
Katherine Foy Independent 735 0.6%
Chaudhry Qamer Iqbal Labour Left Alliance 714 0.6%
Liz Mcinnes Tribune Group 701 0.5%
Mark Mcdonald Independent 646 0.5%
Zahida Abbas Noori Independent 620 0.0%
Steph Shuttleworth Independent 610 0.0%
Fiona Dent Independent 562 0.0%
Julian Vaughan Independent 527 0.0%
John Wiseman Independent 519 0.0%
Steve Maggs Labour Left Alliance 515 0.0%
Cameron Mitchell Independent 514 0.0%
Crispin Flintoff Independent 495 0.0%
Vince Maple Independent 484 0.0%
Carol Taylor-Spedding Labour Left Alliance 473 0.0%
Joe Wheatley Independent 360 0.0%
Alec Price Labour Left Alliance 359 0.0%
Julie Reid Independent 334 0.0%
Mick Johnston Independent 282 0.0%

[batman]

Fiona Dent now sadly passed away. Flintoff expelled, Bayunu now in the Greens, I think the LLA candidates all left or expelled too