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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Apr 25, 2020 11:10:35 GMT
Labour's performance in 1945/46 (article written by an American an illiterate idiot hence the spelling):- Corrected that for you. It's a *NAME* ffs. You don't re-spell *NAMES*. In British English you don't refer to the Australian party as the Labour Party, 'cos that's not its name; similarly, you wouldn't refer to a theoretical American party as the Centre Party, 'cos it's a *name*. The US has a Department Of Defense not a Department Of Defence. IT'S. A. NAME. That's a modern convention, dating from about the time when some Blairite culture warrior with a style book decided to forbid us from spelling Calcutta the way it's always been spelt (which at least has the virtue that it becomes mildly entertaining to scan the sports pages for silly hypercorrections when Scotland and England play one another at rugby). And one would refer to an historical German party as the Centre Party (at least ieast if one were A.J.P. Taylor or some other mid-20th century historian), even though Germans would spell it with a Z. |
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Post by lbarnes on Apr 25, 2020 11:17:49 GMT
Corrected that for you. It's a *NAME* ffs. You don't re-spell *NAMES*. In British English you don't refer to the Australian party as the Labour Party, 'cos that's not its name; similarly, you wouldn't refer to a theoretical American party as the Centre Party, 'cos it's a *name*. The US has a Department Of Defense not a Department Of Defence. IT'S. A. NAME. That's a modern convention, dating from about the time when some Blairite culture warrior with a style book decided to forbid us from spelling Calcutta the way it's always been spelt (which at least has the virtue that it becomes mildly entertaining to scan the sports pages for silly hypercorrections when Scotland and England play one another at rugby). And one would refer to an historical German party as the Centre Party (at least ieast if one were A.J.P. Taylor or some other mid-20th century historian), even though Germans would spell it with a Z. That's rather a bizarre argument. Anyway, must dash, I've got a Youtube video of Aquae Sulis versus Pons Aelius to catch up on. |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,771 
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Post by J.G.Harston on Apr 25, 2020 11:19:29 GMT
Corrected that for you. It's a *NAME* ffs. You don't re-spell *NAMES*. In British English you don't refer to the Australian party as the Labour Party, 'cos that's not its name; similarly, you wouldn't refer to a theoretical American party as the Centre Party, 'cos it's a *name*. The US has a Department Of Defense not a Department Of Defence. IT'S. A. NAME. That's a modern convention, dating from about the time when some Blairite culture warrior with a style book decided to forbid us from spelling Calcutta the way it's always been spelt (which at least has the virtue that it becomes mildly entertaining to scan the sports pages for silly hypercorrections when Scotland and England play one another at rugby). And one would refer to an historical German party as the Centre Party (at least ieast if one were A.J.P. Taylor or some other mid-20th century historian), even though Germans would spell it with a Z. The Germans spell it with a Z when writing in German. |
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Post by hullenedge on May 4, 2020 13:52:07 GMT
Growth of Labour on Leeds CB from 1903 to 1928:-  First councillor elected in 1903, first alderman in 1904, won most wards in 1919 (a Labour landslide everywhere), contested more wards than the Liberals in 1920, overtook the Liberals on the council in 1919/20 but then fell back until 1926 when became largest party, took control of the council in 1928. Lots of results thanks to the BNA and Leeds Library. Once Labour had won a ward they would contest in future years bar New Wortley in 1912 when their nomination was ruled out of order. Labour did not win any seats in Central, Brunswick, Headingley, Mill Hill, North, North West wards during this period nor in the Roundhay, Seacroft, Shadwell and Crossgates ward, which was created in 1912 when the city boundary was extended. 1929 saw an election 'truce' pending new boundaries although the Communists contested West and East Hunslet wards, which Labour comfortably held (the Communists polling 54 and 72 votes respectively). |
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Post by timrollpickering on May 4, 2020 17:59:35 GMT
(Since this thread has suddenly sprung back to life.) Interesting to see the councils where the Liberals were the largest party - all in the pennines except for one in Cardiganshire. Mossley 14 Lib 9 Con 1 Lab Huddersfield 28 Lib 16 Con 14 Lab Bacup 10 Lib 8 Lab 6 Con Rochdale 17 Lib 16 Lab 13 Con Aberayron 7 Lib 3 Lab 1 Con Huddersfield is not so surprising as it returned one of the few Liberal MPs at that time It was deeper - during the 1930s the sitting MP William Mabane adhered to the Liberal Nationals at Westminster but trod a tightrope in Huddersfield trying to blur the distinction and keep the local Liberals together. Eventually a rival Liberal association was formed and there were rival council groups. Mabane was defeated in 1945 and both he & his agent left the area with the two associations subsequently allying then merging and then negotiating a pact with the Conservatives when the constituency was divided in two. This was a rare case where internal Liberal conflict actually strengthened and held the party up instead of shredding its support. There's a constituency case study of this in "William Mabane and Huddersfield Politics, 1931–1947: 'By Any Other Name a Liberal'" by Dutton, David Northern History, Volume 43, Number 1, March 2006 , pp. 137-153 Mossley may well have been something to do with the influence of Austin Hopkinson who was Coalition liberal and then Independent MP for the constituency from 1918 to 1945 with only a two year break (1929 to 1931). He had Liberal opposition four times once he went independent but only once faced a Tory before World War II. Finished fourth in 1945 when both Liberals and Tories stood but it was quite an achievement to hang on that long. Hopkinson spent some of the 1930s taking the National Government whip but didn't join a party. Late in the decade he resigned the whip and went independent again. At the Acton by-election in 1968 I seem to remember that the Liberal candidate changed his name by deed poll to Frank Liberal Davis so that his party description would be on the ballot paper. Maybe this contributed to the change in the law the following year. I wonder if it's entirely coincidental that the previous year had seen the winding up of the National Liberals? In the post war years their existence was the main source of disputes about party labels (many Liberals were not happy with the candidates who stood under various combinations of the words "Conservative", "Unionist", "National" and "Liberal" especially when neither the candidate nor their local association had any historic ties to the Liberals) and so it was now perceived as relatively easy for returning officers to handle descriptions rather than having to determine who locally could use the word "liberal"? Notably this was also just before developments in Northern Ireland that resulted in a lot of similar named parties plus various independents and confusion over who was who. Also the 1960s saw party memberships begin to drop quite a bit and it would be increasingly likely that many polling stations would not have a party activist present to identify the candidates. Of course ROs quickly demonstrated that they were not the gatekeepers against splits and mavericks that many would have hoped for - Bexley had an interesting ballot paper in 1970. Grantham Borough Council election results for the inter-war years. Ind - Independent Lab - Labour Party RACT - Residents' Association and Chamber of Trade ST WULFRAM'S Alfred Roberts RACT 568 Mrs. Mary Ann Rawle Lab 263 I assume that's THE Alfred Roberts? |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on May 4, 2020 18:26:05 GMT
Grantham Borough Council election results for the inter-war years. Ind - Independent Lab - Labour Party RACT - Residents' Association and Chamber of Trade ST WULFRAM'S Alfred Roberts RACT 568 Mrs. Mary Ann Rawle Lab 263 I assume that's THE Alfred Roberts? No, it's not. That one was a fictional creation and was elected in Weatherfield. This is a completely different one who had a daughter called Margaret. |
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Post by AdminSTB on May 5, 2020 18:41:13 GMT
(Since this thread has suddenly sprung back to life.) Interesting to see the councils where the Liberals were the largest party - all in the pennines except for one in Cardiganshire. Mossley 14 Lib 9 Con 1 Lab Huddersfield 28 Lib 16 Con 14 Lab Bacup 10 Lib 8 Lab 6 Con Rochdale 17 Lib 16 Lab 13 Con Aberayron 7 Lib 3 Lab 1 Con Huddersfield is not so surprising as it returned one of the few Liberal MPs at that time It was deeper - during the 1930s the sitting MP William Mabane adhered to the Liberal Nationals at Westminster but trod a tightrope in Huddersfield trying to blur the distinction and keep the local Liberals together. Eventually a rival Liberal association was formed and there were rival council groups. Mabane was defeated in 1945 and both he & his agent left the area with the two associations subsequently allying then merging and then negotiating a pact with the Conservatives when the constituency was divided in two. This was a rare case where internal Liberal conflict actually strengthened and held the party up instead of shredding its support. There's a constituency case study of this in "William Mabane and Huddersfield Politics, 1931–1947: 'By Any Other Name a Liberal'" by Dutton, David Northern History, Volume 43, Number 1, March 2006 , pp. 137-153 Mossley may well have been something to do with the influence of Austin Hopkinson who was Coalition liberal and then Independent MP for the constituency from 1918 to 1945 with only a two year break (1929 to 1931). He had Liberal opposition four times once he went independent but only once faced a Tory before World War II. Finished fourth in 1945 when both Liberals and Tories stood but it was quite an achievement to hang on that long. Hopkinson spent some of the 1930s taking the National Government whip but didn't join a party. Late in the decade he resigned the whip and went independent again. At the Acton by-election in 1968 I seem to remember that the Liberal candidate changed his name by deed poll to Frank Liberal Davis so that his party description would be on the ballot paper. Maybe this contributed to the change in the law the following year. I wonder if it's entirely coincidental that the previous year had seen the winding up of the National Liberals? In the post war years their existence was the main source of disputes about party labels (many Liberals and so it was now perceived as relatively easy for returning officers to handle descriptions rather than having to determine who locally could use the word "liberal"? Notably this was also just before developments in Northern Ireland that resulted in a lot of similar named parties plus various independents and confusion over who was who. Also the 1960s saw party memberships begin to drop quite a bit and it would be increasingly likely that many polling stations would not have a party activist present to identify the candidates. Of course ROs quickly demonstrated that they were not the gatekeepers against splits and mavericks that many would have hoped for - Bexley had an interesting ballot paper in 1970. The Strange Survival of Liberal Lancashire, by Jaime Reynolds. Discusses the resilience of the Liberal Party in the Lancashire cotton mill towns after the 1920s. Interesting read although I'm sure many forum members will have already seen it: liberalhistory.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/85-Reynolds-Strange-Survival-Liberal-Lancashire.pdf |
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Post by hullenedge on Oct 16, 2020 7:11:47 GMT
Liverpool in colours 1945-72 plus more recent years (via Dr David Jeffrey):-
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Post by hullenedge on Oct 16, 2020 13:12:18 GMT
DR DJ's talk on YouTube:-
Schedule of talks (more than one video):-
/photo/1
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Post by David Ashforth on Oct 18, 2020 10:02:40 GMT
Liverpool in colours 1945-72 plus more recent years (via Dr David Jeffrey):- Thank you for this. This has been posted before but J.G.Harston's website has a lot of election information for Sheffield. mdfs.net/Docs/Sheffield/ |
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