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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jun 16, 2018 12:21:46 GMT
Were candidates' occupations (innkeepers, corn millers, drapers etc) featured on ballot papers at any time in these long gone councils? Certainly the newspapers usually mentioned them in the days when party politics very often did not feature in local elections; it seemed to be the only information available about them. Not on the ballot paper. They were pasted up at polling stations in the Notice of Poll, but there was a rule (backed up by case law) that candidates were not able to use the 'Description' to give their political allegiance. This law was changed in 1969. |
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Post by yellowperil on Jun 16, 2018 15:23:34 GMT
Were candidates' occupations (innkeepers, corn millers, drapers etc) featured on ballot papers at any time in these long gone councils? Certainly the newspapers usually mentioned them in the days when party politics very often did not feature in local elections; it seemed to be the only information available about them. Not on the ballot paper. They were pasted up at polling stations in the Notice of Poll, but there was a rule (backed up by case law) that candidates were not able to use the 'Description' to give their political allegiance. This law was changed in 1969.Gosh was it as late as that? I do remember the days when it wasn't on the ballot paper and therefore one depended on leaflets and posters etc to know who was who, and that's how it was in my earliest political days of the forties and fifties, and by the time I came back into active politics in the eighties it had all changed, but I coudn't have put a date to the change. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jun 16, 2018 16:14:12 GMT
The old provision was Rule 7 (3) in the Parliamentary Election Rules (Second Schedule to the Representation of the People Act 1949): "The description shall not refer to the candidate's political activities, and need not refer to his rank, profession or calling so long as, with the other particulars of the candidate, it is sufficient to identify him."
Rule 7 (4) stated that "If the description is unduly long, the returning officer after consultation (if possible) with the candidate or his election agent, proposer or seconder, may shorten it or substitute another".
Section 12 of the Representation of the People Act 1969 created what was described as a 'free for all' in which the description could be anything the candidate chose. The Act also put the description on the ballot paper.
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johnloony
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Post by johnloony on Jun 16, 2018 18:23:52 GMT
The old provision was Rule 7 (3) in the Parliamentary Election Rules (Second Schedule to the Representation of the People Act 1949): "The description shall not refer to the candidate's political activities, and need not refer to his rank, profession or calling so long as, with the other particulars of the candidate, it is sufficient to identify him." Rule 7 (4) stated that "If the description is unduly long, the returning officer after consultation (if possible) with the candidate or his election agent, proposer or seconder, may shorten it or substitute another". Section 12 of the Representation of the People Act 1969 created what was described as a 'free for all' in which the description could be anything the candidate chose. The Act also put the description on the ballot paper. As I understand it, candidates were originally allowed to write anything as their "description", and gradually started using it to describe their political affiliation, but that this was regarded as an abuse of process - so it was banned (presumably in 1949 by the law you mention) until it was formalised in 1969. |
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Post by tonyhill on Jun 20, 2018 18:22:14 GMT
At the Acton by-election in 1968 I seem to remember that the Liberal candidate changed his name by deed poll to Frank Liberal Davis so that his party description would be on the ballot paper. Maybe this contributed to the change in the law the following year.
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Post by swanarcadian on Jun 21, 2018 5:05:54 GMT
I suppose fifty years ago it was less important to have the party description against a candidate's name simply because there were far fewer candidates, many seats being a straightforward Con-Lab battle. It would be interesting to know what proportion of people turned up at the polling station without knowing which candidate represented which party, and had to ask the clerks.
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Post by Alan Willis on Jun 21, 2018 19:17:22 GMT
I worked for Elstree Rural District Council from 1967-1971. During this period I worked as a poll clerk for the 1968 and 1971 locals and the 1970 General Election. Elstree R.D.C was situated in south Hertfordshire but was part of the (London) Barnet Constituency. Reginald Mauldling was the M.P.
At the General Election people arriving to vote knew which candidate they were voting for - there were only 3 to choose from. However, there used to be a crowd of party activists collecting numbers outside the polling stations who could remind folk if necessary (and of course take their register number).
Local elections were much different. Elstree RDC had multi-member wards meaning the ballot papers (in 1968) contained a lot of names. I remember each of the local parties would send to each elector a card printed in their party colours with the names of their candidates printed in alphabetical order (similar to what they would find on the ballot paper). A lot of people would arrive with these cards and use them when voting in the booths. On quite a few occasions we were asked who were the 'Labour', 'Conservative', or 'Liberal' candidates. This created a bit of a dilemma as we had to be impartial etc. However, we could always refer them to the party activists who were collecting register numbers!!
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 22, 2018 8:33:00 GMT
I worked for Elstree Rural District Council from 1967-1971. During this period I worked as a poll clerk for the 1968 and 1971 locals and the 1970 General Election. You don't happen to remember the ward boundaries from that time do you? I assume the wards in use then were the same as those used for the first elections to Hertsmere council in 1973 www.electionscentre.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Hertsmere-1973-2012.pdfElstree ward itself then as now (nut not between 1976 and 1999) would have just covered the area West of the railway. Broadly speaking, Brookmeadow would cover the NW of the remaining built up area of Borehamwood, Cowley the NE, Manor the SE and Furzehill the SW but they would not correspond much to the current wards occupying those positions - I would guess that Furzehill, unlike Hillside, would have extended north of Shenley Road to include much of what later became Lyndhurst. Brookmeadow would have covered more or less what would become the Brookmeadow and Campions wards (rather than the area covered by the current ward which is mainly the 1976-99 Lyndhurst) Unfortunately this site which is excellent for old boundaries of MBs and UDs doesn't show ward boundaries for rural districts |
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Post by swanarcadian on Jun 22, 2018 22:56:46 GMT
Results are beginning to appear on my new forum courtesy of hullenedge and Right Leaning. Having created over two thousand threads I too have begun to chip in. The focus has been on Leeds CB, a few UDCs in Yorkshire, West Riding County Council and the London Metropolitan Boroughs so far. Early days... |
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Post by Alan Willis on Jun 24, 2018 18:06:25 GMT
I worked for Elstree Rural District Council from 1967-1971. During this period I worked as a poll clerk for the 1968 and 1971 locals and the 1970 General Election. You don't happen to remember the ward boundaries from that time do you? I assume the wards in use then were the same as those used for the first elections to Hertsmere council in 1973 www.electionscentre.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Hertsmere-1973-2012.pdfElstree ward itself then as now (nut not between 1976 and 1999) would have just covered the area West of the railway. Broadly speaking, Brookmeadow would cover the NW of the remaining built up area of Borehamwood, Cowley the NE, Manor the SE and Furzehill the SW but they would not correspond much to the current wards occupying those positions - I would guess that Furzehill, unlike Hillside, would have extended north of Shenley Road to include much of what later became Lyndhurst. Brookmeadow would have covered more or less what would become the Brookmeadow and Campions wards (rather than the area covered by the current ward which is mainly the 1976-99 Lyndhurst) Unfortunately this site which is excellent for old boundaries of MBs and UDs doesn't show ward boundaries for rural districts |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jun 24, 2018 18:40:58 GMT
Remember that rural districts didn't have wards - elections were done by parish.
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Post by Alan Willis on Jun 24, 2018 18:45:17 GMT
I was born in nearby Burnt Oak (Hendon) and grew up in Borehamwood. I left school in 1967 and went to work for Elstree RDC in the 'Housing Department). The ward were those as you said and your geography is very impressive! One ward that did not carry forward to Hertsmere in 1973 was Ridge. This was a very small parish returning 1 councillor. From memory the electorate totalled about 180 persons. Elections were usually contested between a Conservative and Liberal. The polling station was someone's front room. In 1973 it became part of the Potters Bar West ward.
Apart from Ridge (1), the other wards were Manor (4), Furzehill (4), Cowley (3), Shenley (3) and Elstree (2). Brookmeadow was added to Elstree RDC following transfer of the estate from Watford RDC (after the 1968 election). I can also remember one street lying parallel to the A1 being in the Barnet Borough. I lived in the Manor ward and worked as a poll clerk for both Manor & Cowley wards. Most of the wards and population lay in the Borehamwood Wards. Elstree RDC was not a typical Rural Council. Borehamwood was mainly farm land. Following the war a major housing development . took place. Elstree RDC built a substantial amount of council housing (mainly Cowley Ward). Elsewhere the London county Council also built many homes to rehouse families from the London Boroughs (Mainly Manor Ward). I believe this ward was named after Manor Farm.
With such huge Council Housing estates it was not surprising the Labour Party took control of the RDC. They even held on in 1968 with a majority of 1. Broodmeadow Ward was also a whole estate built by the London County and therefore helped Labour increase its majority in 1971.
If I had a map of Borehamwood for 1968 I could demarcate the Ward boundaries. Furzehill ward would be the trickiest as it lay north and south of Shenley Road. It has a mixed housing stock and was a marginal Ward. Elstree ward was mostly private housing and elected Conservatives except , I believe, in the resurgent Liberal years of the early sixties. Shenley Ward contained a mix of housing and was marginal. Fortunately for Labour they had a local candidate who was very popular. He was constantly returned and often brought with him another Labour candidate. He was the reason Labour won in 1968.
Since 1973 there has continued to be a substantial amount of house building.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 24, 2018 20:35:35 GMT
I was born in nearby Burnt Oak (Hendon) and grew up in Borehamwood. I left school in 1967 and went to work for Elstree RDC in the 'Housing Department). The ward were those as you said and your geography is very impressive! One ward that did not carry forward to Hertsmere in 1973 was Ridge. This was a very small parish returning 1 councillor. From memory the electorate totalled about 180 persons. Elections were usually contested between a Conservative and Liberal. The polling station was someone's front room. In 1973 it became part of the Potters Bar West ward.... I always thought it odd that Ridge was put in with Potters Bar West rather than Shenley (as it is now) - as you say the numbers are so small that it can't have been for that reason - I suppose it is that Ridge itself is better connected with South Mimms than Shenley although the parish extends far to the North. I grew up in the neighbouring Bushey Urban district so I know Borehamwood very well as it became the centre for my local council and the site of certain facilities (eg I learnt to swim in the pool there) and also my first political activities (though mainly in Bushey of course, I do remember canvassing in Lyndhurst one time, probably in 1988). My family also followed the trajectory from Hendon borough to what would become Hertsmere as it happens. I was aware that the Organ Hall estate had originally been in Aldenham but didn't know when it was transferred. From what you say the whole of the old Brookmeadow ward emanated from there (Aldenham East would be a rather different proposition if that change hadn't occurred) - not sure if Campions was also as that was a strange little single member ward. I guess Aycliffe Road was the northern boundary of the old Elstree parish . I also remember some streets in what I thought was Kenilworth turning out to be actually in Barnet so I think that was the case until the mid 90s when there were various changes in the boundary between Hertsmere and Greater London. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 24, 2018 20:40:40 GMT
Remember that rural districts didn't have wards - elections were done by parish. Are you sure about this? From what Alan has said above the Elstree parish was warded for elections the the RDC (as it would have to be really as the population was so heavily concentrated in that parish.) I am also sure my former UKIP colleague in St Albans told me about having contested London Colney NW in the late 60s when it was part of the then St Albans Rural district (and they had the same wards then as they do now for the parish council) |
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jun 24, 2018 20:50:52 GMT
Remember that rural districts didn't have wards - elections were done by parish. Are you sure about this? From what Alan has said above the Elstree parish was warded for elections the the RDC (as it would have to be really as the population was so heavily concentrated in that parish.) I am also sure my former UKIP colleague in St Albans told me about having contested London Colney NW in the late 60s when it was part of the then St Albans Rural district (and they had the same wards then as they do now for the parish council) I can't remember where I read it, but I think the 1880s legislation setting up RDCs had a default position of constituent parishes being electoral units, the county council could subsequently re-arrange them. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jun 24, 2018 20:58:54 GMT
Remember that rural districts didn't have wards - elections were done by parish. Are you sure about this? From what Alan has said above the Elstree parish was warded for elections the the RDC (as it would have to be really as the population was so heavily concentrated in that parish.) I am also sure my former UKIP colleague in St Albans told me about having contested London Colney NW in the late 60s when it was part of the then St Albans Rural district (and they had the same wards then as they do now for the parish council) Not entirely sure, but I'm going from the Municipal Year Book which just lists the members by parish. In the case of Elstree RDC, it's shown as having three parishes: Elstree (15 members), Ridge (one member) and Shenley (three members). And when a Rural District was divided between constituencies, it was only ever divided by whole parishes, never by parish wards. But presumably there were parish wards in the larger parishes. |
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ColinJ
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Post by ColinJ on Jun 25, 2018 7:01:39 GMT
But presumably there were parish wards in the larger parishes. Indeed there was. An example from the area I know best.... Hendon RDC was formed in 1894 from the parishes of Pinner, Harrow Weald, Great Stanmore Little Stanmore and Edgware. At the district's first election the number of councillors returned by each parish was three, one, two, one and one, respectively. In 1904 population growth resulted in Pinner and Harrow Weald each being assigned an extra councillor, and in 1914 the representation of Pinner parish was increased to five members, making the total council size 11. Due to the geographical and electoral size of Pinner, the parish was split for electoral purposes into three wards at the 1925 election. The wards were: Pinner (Village), Pinner (Hatch End) and Pinner (Headstone) and they were allotted two, one and two councillors, respectively, for RDC elections. (There were four, one and four councillors respectively for parish elections.) The warding arrangements continued in place until abolition in 1934. |
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Post by hullenedge on Jun 26, 2018 7:45:18 GMT
Copied from a stats journal:-  The author may be mistaken about the number of wards remaining 'approx same'. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 26, 2018 8:37:47 GMT
Copied from a stats journal:- The author may be mistaken about the number of wards remaining 'approx same'. Maybe, but looking at the 1973 results on the election centre series it seems clear that a lot of the new local authorities just used the old wards from the previous local authorities in the area before in many cases having wholescale re-warding for the following election (though some did not get redrawn until 1983, eg. Wycombe) |
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Post by lbarnes on Jun 26, 2018 15:22:54 GMT
Results are beginning to appear on my new forum courtesy of hullenedge and Right Leaning . Having created over two thousand threads I too have begun to chip in. The focus has been on Leeds CB, a few UDCs in Yorkshire, West Riding County Council and the London Metropolitan Boroughs so far. Early days... I've probably misunderstood. Is your Leeds discussion forum on this site or elsewhere? |
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