ibfc
BJP
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Post by ibfc on Mar 19, 2023 14:09:44 GMT
You should be the last person talking about skewed world-views while having a sanctimonious chip larger than Alaska on your shoulder. I'm grateful to you for proving my point. Thank-you. Just as I am to you for proving mine.
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Post by rcronald on Mar 19, 2023 14:11:05 GMT
BBB seems to be better prepared than their predecessors: they have invested a lot of time in team building their new councillors who have also spent a significant time following debates and swotting on the relevant issues. Since they are the largest party everywhere, they have the initiative in forming the new executive in all 12 provinces. Before the election they apparently contacted people from outside their own ranks and asked them if they would lead the prelimenary discussions in case BBB became the biggest party. For instance, the former speaker of the First Chamber and secretary of state for Immigration (comparable with a minister in the UK) and member of the VVD Ankie Broekers will act as such in Noord Holland. Correct me if I’m wrong, but looking at the numbers of 1 issue parties (excluding PvdD), regional parties, and right of centre parties (excluding PVV and FVD in provinces where they need mainstream support), BBB has a decent shot in every province outside of Utrecht and North Holland.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2023 15:42:02 GMT
VVD and CDA of course have every reason to want to govern with BBB. That could be the excuse they have been looking for to abandon the policies that are so unpopular in the country side, but they have supported because it is part of the coalition agreement . Painfull for the VVD, since the main proponent is one of their Cabinet members, and also their former party chairwoman.
Also, Wilders has shown that nothing's easier than opposing every measure and never taking any responsibility. You will never get really unpopular that way. By governing BBB will disappoint al least some part of their electorate, especially since its support certainly is not limited to opponents of the farmer policies. BBB also got significant support in the cities on a more general discontent about the way this country has been governed by Rutte and associates since 2010. Governing with CDA and VVD (and the compromises that means) probably won't satisfy those voters.
BBB got only 5% and 7th place in the Republic of Moscow on the IJ (with the left at over 70% of the vote). Once again showing the huge gulf between Amsterdam and the rest of the country (minus a few cities like Utrecht, Nijmegen and Groningen).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2023 15:50:26 GMT
Wikipedia claims he no longer felt welcome in the party. Can't find anything more specific. He was an interesting person, but really at best a second level politician. He was an undistinguished member of the Den Uyl government in the 70s and after that did not achieve any major position. He was perceived as not a team player.Ironic, given that he founded the team. But the team he founded is very different from what it has since become. Their position as a left wing party is far less clear now: they are in a majority right wing coalition for the third time this century and they have abandoned their ideas about reforming our democracy (especially since they found out to their disbelief that referenda are highly reactionary, and in practice stand in the way of the things D66 wants in stead of the voters choosing to implement things that reactionary politicians stopped)
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Post by finsobruce on Mar 19, 2023 16:03:30 GMT
Ironic, given that he founded the team. But the team he founded is very different from what it has since become. Their position as a left wing party is far less clear now: they are in a majority right wing coalition for the third time this century and they have abandoned their ideas about reforming our democracy (especially since they found out to their disbelief that referenda are highly reactionary, and in practice stand in the way of the things D66 wants in stead of the voters choosing to implement things that reactionary politicians stopped) I'm sure, although we are talking quite a while ago in terms of his departure.
Well that's coalition politics for you.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 19, 2023 20:24:49 GMT
The collapse of the nationalist right Forum for Democracy is also noteworthy, as is DENK's wipeout and 50PLUS surprisingly losing only half its provincial mandates given the schisms it has undergone. DENK's complete demise will be a fine day. Time to crack the advocaat out.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 19, 2023 20:28:47 GMT
Given van den Plas is ex-CDA, is she still perceived as being part of their gene pool?
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Post by finsobruce on Mar 19, 2023 20:40:53 GMT
The collapse of the nationalist right Forum for Democracy is also noteworthy, as is DENK's wipeout and 50PLUS surprisingly losing only half its provincial mandates given the schisms it has undergone. DENK's complete demise will be a fine day. Time to crack the advocaat out. Erdogan will not be happy.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 19, 2023 21:41:02 GMT
DENK's complete demise will be a fine day. Time to crack the advocaat out. Erdogan will not be happy. Time to throw more money at his pet party in Germany.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Mar 19, 2023 21:52:10 GMT
DENK's complete demise will be a fine day. Time to crack the advocaat out. Erdogan will not be happy. Given he's currently 10 points behind in the polls and the election's less than two months away, that may not be much of a problem.
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Post by finsobruce on Mar 19, 2023 22:04:31 GMT
Erdogan will not be happy. Given he's currently 10 points behind in the polls and the election's less than two months away, that may not be much of a problem. Hmmm. I hope you're right but who knows what he might try between now and then.
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Mar 19, 2023 22:33:05 GMT
Erdogan will not be happy. Given he's currently 10 points behind in the polls and the election's less than two months away, that may not be much of a problem. The Netherlands cast 260000 votes last time with Erdogan getting 63% of them (2nd highest behind Belgium), so any sign of AKP Netherlands significantly faltering is not good news for him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2023 6:43:23 GMT
Given van den Plas is ex-CDA, is she still perceived as being part of their gene pool? This may well be true, but I did not know it and I've never heard or read anything about it. So I doubt she will be seen as anything other than a representative of the VVD.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2023 6:52:04 GMT
Given he's currently 10 points behind in the polls and the election's less than two months away, that may not be much of a problem. The Netherlands cast 260000 votes last time with Erdogan getting 63% of them (2nd highest behind Belgium), so any sign of AKP Netherlands significantly faltering is not good news for him. The Provincial Elections was at 58% a low turnout elections. The 260000 you mention are likely to be overrepresented in non voters group. I haven't seen an analyse of the DENK vote, but they probably lost part of their anti establishment vote to BBB.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2023 6:54:09 GMT
But the team he founded is very different from what it has since become. Their position as a left wing party is far less clear now: they are in a majority right wing coalition for the third time this century and they have abandoned their ideas about reforming our democracy (especially since they found out to their disbelief that referenda are highly reactionary, and in practice stand in the way of the things D66 wants in stead of the voters choosing to implement things that reactionary politicians stopped) I'm sure, although we are talking quite a while ago in terms of his departure.
Well that's coalition politics for you. He left in 2004 and died in 2005.
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Post by finsobruce on Mar 20, 2023 9:45:15 GMT
I'm sure, although we are talking quite a while ago in terms of his departure.
Well that's coalition politics for you. He left in 2004 and died in 2005. I know.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2023 11:42:51 GMT
First crack in the BBB wall: for practical reasons the party has abandoned its party program forbidding double mandates. Upholding it would have meant leaving a number of positions unfilled. So now a number of their senators will also sit as members of Provinciale Staten (County Council).
I’ve also seen the first reports about new Councillors and their less than stellar backgrounds.
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on May 30, 2023 20:42:05 GMT
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jul 4, 2023 11:44:24 GMT
The BBB, GroenLinks, PvdA and VVD have agreed a coalition in Nord-Holland.
Presumably there will be no follow-up articles in the various British papers that assumed the BBB were crypto-fascists based on... Well, not a lot.
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