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Post by rcronald on Mar 17, 2023 11:18:29 GMT
The collapse of the nationalist right Forum for Democracy is also noteworthy, as is DENK's wipeout and 50PLUS surprisingly losing only half its provincial mandates given the schisms it has undergone. FVD went completely off the rails a couple of months after the provincial elections, expected them to lose even more considering the views of their leader tbh |
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Post by rcronald on Mar 17, 2023 11:33:52 GMT
Right of Centre+ Agrarian parties (excluding PVV and FVD) now have a majority in every province outside of North Holland and Utrecht.
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Mar 17, 2023 13:14:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2023 14:28:39 GMT
Tbh, a future right wing government should just tell the courts to fuck off (the policy was forced upon the government by the courts after all). It’s also a reminder why leaving the EU was a good thing. I don’t think a right wing government is ever possible here. We’ve had plenty of right wing governments in the past. For instance 2010 when PVV supported the minority government of VVD and CDA. just to put everything in perspective: the voters have just elected a First chamber that in majority supports the measures that BBB and the farmers so strongly oppose. it’s fascinating How right wing supporters of law and order change their tune when they don’t like what law dictates. |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Mar 17, 2023 15:12:46 GMT
The idea the Netherlands hasn't had a right wing government even in the last few years, is an.....interesting one.
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ibfc
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Post by ibfc on Mar 17, 2023 15:32:21 GMT
I don’t think a right wing government is ever possible here. We’ve had plenty of right wing governments in the past. For instance 2010 when PVV supported the minority government of VVD and CDA. just to put everything in perspective: the voters have just elected a First chamber that in majority supports the measures that BBB and the farmers so strongly oppose. it’s fascinating How right wing supporters of law and order change their tune when they don’t like what law dictates. I don’t think VVD and CDA are right wing parties. They are very firmly part of the consensus. |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Mar 17, 2023 15:52:37 GMT
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Post by greenhert on Mar 17, 2023 16:25:07 GMT
We’ve had plenty of right wing governments in the past. For instance 2010 when PVV supported the minority government of VVD and CDA. just to put everything in perspective: the voters have just elected a First chamber that in majority supports the measures that BBB and the farmers so strongly oppose. it’s fascinating How right wing supporters of law and order change their tune when they don’t like what law dictates. I don’t think VVD and CDA are right wing parties. They are very firmly part of the consensus. They are right-wing parties but in different respects. VVD is economically on the right and the CDA is socially on the right. That is why CDA endured heavier losses in those provincial elections, because their strongest bases are in rural areas/small towns where BBB performed best. It also explains the disparities between the proportion of seats won by BBB in the western, more urbanised Dutch provinces and elsewhere in the Netherlands. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2023 16:39:07 GMT
Up until mid 2000s VVD and CDA were the right wing parties, together with the different protestant parties. Occasionally the order was upset by more extreme right wing parties like the Farmer party in 60s and 70s and the Centrum Democrats in the 80s, that could win a hand full of Seats. VVD and CDA were rivals for the tactical right wing vote, but really did not have to worry about their right flank. Since Fortuyn this has changed and extreme right wing parties, with a racist agenda and rhetoric have conquerred a significant part of the electorate. This of course does not mean that VVD and CDA suddenly have become anything other than at best centre right parties. Rutte is still very capable of using right wing issues like refugees and (a particular favourite) pro car rhetoric. CDA traditionally has a very socially conservative support group and their trade union wing has long since disappeared.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2023 16:46:53 GMT
The growth of the extremes (with an increasing more extreme left wing also) simply means that traditional rivals like VVD and PvdA have to work together, because there are no alternative if you want a more or less stable government. This then fuels the extremes, so that someone like Caroline van der Plas, the BBB leader, can gallop to victory. If history is repeated, within twelve months BBB will have split in at least three factions and they will have achieved nothing. So at the next election a new savior will emerge.
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Post by rcronald on Mar 17, 2023 18:39:56 GMT
Saying that a majority voted for anti-farmer parties is not true, the only party in the current coalition that is genuinely in favour of the nitrogen cuts and are not coerced into implementing it is D66.
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Post by rcronald on Mar 17, 2023 18:41:47 GMT
The growth of the extremes (with an increasing more extreme left wing also) simply means that traditional rivals like VVD and PvdA have to work together, because there are no alternative if you want a more or less stable government. This then fuels the extremes, so that someone like Caroline van der Plas, the BBB leader, can gallop to victory. If history is repeated, within twelve months BBB will have split in at least three factions and they will have achieved nothing. So at the next election a new savior will emerge. FVD split in 3 because their leader lost his mind, BBB is also not as right wing. |
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Post by finsobruce on Mar 17, 2023 18:52:52 GMT
We’ve had plenty of right wing governments in the past. For instance 2010 when PVV supported the minority government of VVD and CDA. just to put everything in perspective: the voters have just elected a First chamber that in majority supports the measures that BBB and the farmers so strongly oppose. it’s fascinating How right wing supporters of law and order change their tune when they don’t like what law dictates. I don’t think VVD and CDA are right wing parties. They are very firmly part of the consensus. Just because they are part of the consensus doesn't mean they aren't right wing. Just because they are right wing doesn't mean they aren't part of the consensus.  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2023 8:28:26 GMT
The growth of the extremes (with an increasing more extreme left wing also) simply means that traditional rivals like VVD and PvdA have to work together, because there are no alternative if you want a more or less stable government. This then fuels the extremes, so that someone like Caroline van der Plas, the BBB leader, can gallop to victory. If history is repeated, within twelve months BBB will have split in at least three factions and they will have achieved nothing. So at the next election a new savior will emerge. FVD split in 3 because their leader lost his mind, BBB is also not as right wing. I bow to your superior knowledge of Dutch politics. |
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Post by rcronald on Mar 18, 2023 9:36:59 GMT
FVD split in 3 because their leader lost his mind, BBB is also not as right wing. I bow to your superior knowledge of Dutch politics. FVD didn’t split up because of Baudet? |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Mar 18, 2023 14:52:37 GMT
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Post by Georg Ebner on Mar 18, 2023 16:01:39 GMT
I don’t think VVD and CDA are right wing parties. They are very firmly part of the consensus. They are right-wing parties but in different respects. VVD is economically on the right and the CDA is socially on the right. That is why CDA endured heavier losses in those provincial elections, because their strongest bases are in rural areas/small towns where BBB performed best. It also explains the disparities between the proportion of seats won by BBB in the western, more urbanised Dutch provinces and elsewhere in the Netherlands. From a purely innerDutch perspective this is true (although CDA's conservativism in "social" issues is very vague). But as soon as we broaden our horizon to countries, where the people have to fight for their daily bread&butter, the graduates in WestEurope or the US-coasts (and especially areas like Scandinavia, Germany, NL) with their focus on climateChange/gender/trans must appear as decadent left-extremists detached from reality. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2023 18:26:06 GMT
We’ve had plenty of right wing governments in the past. For instance 2010 when PVV supported the minority government of VVD and CDA. just to put everything in perspective: the voters have just elected a First chamber that in majority supports the measures that BBB and the farmers so strongly oppose. it’s fascinating How right wing supporters of law and order change their tune when they don’t like what law dictates. I don’t think VVD and CDA are right wing parties. They are very firmly part of the consensus. Right-wing is an actual term with an actual definition, not code for "exactly what I believe". By any sensible or widely accepted definition, VVD qualify as a right-wing party, and CDA are a centre-right one (arguably, D66 could qualify as well) |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2023 18:34:56 GMT
I also wonder if the pattern of populist parties doing well, then collapsing and being replaced by a new one is in some way related to the legacy of the Lijst Pim Fortuyn who I believe still hold the record for the best general election result for a new party, although my knowledge of Dutch political culture isn't good enough to do more than make an educated guess
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ibfc
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Post by ibfc on Mar 18, 2023 18:51:26 GMT
I don’t think VVD and CDA are right wing parties. They are very firmly part of the consensus. Right-wing is an actual term with an actual definition, not code for "exactly what I believe". By any sensible or widely accepted definition, VVD qualify as a right-wing party, and CDA are a centre-right one (arguably, D66 could qualify as well) Well when the definitions itself are cooked up by lefties, I don’t see a reason to accept them. 100 idiots whether with degrees or not calling a cat a dog doesn’t make it a dog. |
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