maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,306 
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Post by maxque on Jun 9, 2023 22:56:07 GMT
Christ, bitter moaning about Them Southerners is exactly the kind of shit that holds the entire North of England back. Or perhaps it's a natural symptom of a political system that concentrates power and investment in the south. That has led to real and tangible problems for the north, Wales and parts of Scotland. It's also why we see the rise in political apathy, and a part of the reason for the rise in separatist sentiment in the latter two. It isn't bitter to point that out and want to rectify it. Changing attitudes outwith the south, mainly the south east, towards the south will do nothing if there isn't a concomitant change in public policy. This is why 'leveling up' has such traction, it's badly needed and I am disappointed it has come to nought. Anybody who didn't drink the Conservative propagenda is very aware that the only thing a Conservative government (or even a Starmer/Labour NEC one) will "level up" is corporate bank accounts. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jun 9, 2023 23:03:03 GMT
Christ, bitter moaning about Them Southerners is exactly the kind of shit that holds the entire North of England back. Or perhaps it's a natural symptom of a political system that concentrates power and investment in the south. That has led to real and tangible problems for the north, Wales and parts of Scotland. It's also why we see the rise in political apathy, and a part of the reason for the rise in separatist sentiment in the latter two. It isn't bitter to point that out and want to rectify it. Changing attitudes outwith the south, mainly the south east, towards the south will do nothing if there isn't a concomitant change in public policy. This is why 'leveling up' has such traction, it's badly needed and I am disappointed it has come to nought. It was never a problem for the North when the South was mainly impoverished and a source of agricultural labour. Hence why the average Northern settlement has a vastly more developed railway network than larger towns in, say, Hampshire or Sussex. Or why the east to west connections by road are so poor. What drags us Northerners down is the idea that the Southerners need to be beggared for us to succeed. And embarrassing nostalgia based on the most rose-tinted of glasses. Right now we're selling bucket hats and Stone Roses merchandise and pretending it's useful. |
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stb12
Top Poster
Posts: 8,379
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Post by stb12 on Jun 9, 2023 23:19:05 GMT
If Boris were to return to return to parliament at a future election is any recommended suspension by the privileges committee cancelled out or could it still be a potential issue?
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Jun 9, 2023 23:21:57 GMT
Or perhaps it's a natural symptom of a political system that concentrates power and investment in the south. That has led to real and tangible problems for the north, Wales and parts of Scotland. It's also why we see the rise in political apathy, and a part of the reason for the rise in separatist sentiment in the latter two. It isn't bitter to point that out and want to rectify it. Changing attitudes outwith the south, mainly the south east, towards the south will do nothing if there isn't a concomitant change in public policy. This is why 'leveling up' has such traction, it's badly needed and I am disappointed it has come to nought. It was never a problem for the North when the South was mainly impoverished and a source of agricultural labour. Hence why the average Northern settlement has a vastly more developed railway network than larger towns in, say, Hampshire or Sussex. Or why the east to west connections by road are so poor. What drags us Northerners down is the idea that the Southerners need to be beggared for us to succeed. And embarrassing nostalgia based on the most rose-tinted of glasses. Right now we're selling bucket hats and Stone Roses merchandise and pretending it's useful. I am not advocating that however. I don't want to see the south punished, and I recognise that there are real pockets of deprivation there. What I think would work is proper capital investment in infrastructure and better housing and facilities, and we reluctantly have to go ahead with more broad devolution to the cities and regions of England. I get the opposition to that, I don't want to see England broken up or the national identity diminished either, and it doesn't have to result in that, but I believe only by creating more advantageous tax regimes and the kind of SEZ's we see in China can we properly level up. I don't think central government will be able to do that, we must have small centers of authority in the north to do that efficiently. After all, the situation is not fair on the south either. The overpopulation, cramped communities, overloaded infrastructure and public services at capacity is having obvious negative effects, in London and the south east particularly. But I am getting wildly off topic from the Uxbridge and South Ruislip by-election. |
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Post by Wisconsin on Jun 9, 2023 23:59:27 GMT
If Boris were to return to return to parliament at a future election is any recommended suspension by the privileges committee cancelled out or could it still be a potential issue? I guess the first question is can/will the committee recommend a suspension even if the member is no longer a member? |
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bsjmcr
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,591
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Post by bsjmcr on Jun 10, 2023 0:31:41 GMT
If Boris were to return to return to parliament at a future election is any recommended suspension by the privileges committee cancelled out or could it still be a potential issue? I guess the first question is can/will the committee recommend a suspension even if the member is no longer a member? The other question is how would Tory MPs have been whipped to vote (if at all) and if Johnson has unwittingly ‘helped’ RS in the short term as the vote would have been a major distraction, and he would have been damned either way - pure opposition fuel if he/the majority of Tories voted against, and if he also voted to/recommended the Tories to suspend Johnson, it could have become an excuse for the die-hard Johnson backers to write to the 1922 and Dorries could have been the first of many to go and could have brought him down with the ship. It doesn’t look like it’s going to happen just yet and as we have seen, losing the by-elections will just be brushed off… just like the local elections which seem like ancient history now. |
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Max
Labour
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Post by Max on Jun 10, 2023 1:49:12 GMT
I guess the first question is can/will the committee recommend a suspension even if the member is no longer a member? The other question is how would Tory MPs have been whipped to vote (if at all) and if Johnson has unwittingly ‘helped’ RS in the short term as the vote would have been a major distraction, and he would have been damned either way - pure opposition fuel if he/the majority of Tories voted against, and if he also voted to/recommended the Tories to suspend Johnson, it could have become an excuse for the die-hard Johnson backers to write to the 1922 and Dorries could have been the first of many to go and could have brought him down with the ship. It doesn’t look like it’s going to happen just yet and as we have seen, losing the by-elections will just be brushed off… just like the local elections which seem like ancient history now. There is no Whip on House business like consideration of reports from the Privileges Committee. Of course that would not stop informal urgings to vote one way or the other from collections of MPs… |
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cogload
Lib Dem
I jumped in the river and what did I see...
Posts: 9,141
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Post by cogload on Jun 10, 2023 1:57:20 GMT
Johnson’s resignation essay: “It is very sad to be leaving parliament - at least for now [….]” The man can't stop lying - even in his resignation statement. Yet still he plays his tune and a section of the population dance behind with a jaunty jig. |
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cogload
Lib Dem
I jumped in the river and what did I see...
Posts: 9,141
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Post by cogload on Jun 10, 2023 3:50:25 GMT
Those pushing for this suspension stuff need to understand they’ve enabled this which is the start of his inevitable comeback sooner or later. His actual defeat will only come at the hands of the electorate. With him being in the seat he is in this ultimately only helps him. An excuse to get out of a seat he would only lose. I don’t say this gleefully. As someone who is neither a Boris fan nor of this ridiculous law. Everyone comes out of this badly. He didn't want to face the electorate. He took that choice from them by resigning. |
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Post by matureleft on Jun 10, 2023 4:29:00 GMT
One must assume that Johnson has a personal plan in his actions. He is earning good money and he desperately needs that. This step will only increase his earning potential. He is (explicitly within the statement) presuming a Tory defeat, if not necessarily a Labour victory, in the forthcoming election. This removes him from that experience. He protects the illusion that he personally won a majority and that the electorate never lost faith. He will play the role of a seeming supporter, turning up to back his circle while offering faint praise to the current leadership.
I would expect him to fight a by-election that I’m sure would be facilitated after the election and then seek the leadership once more. Depending on quite how bad the Tory losses are he might well win. Whatever government is in place will be struggling with adverse circumstances (and the consequences of this government from which he can, in some minds, be distanced).
The one thing of which one can be sure is that he’ll be egocentric. His political life has been thin on principle or any other fixed points.
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Post by aargauer on Jun 10, 2023 5:20:17 GMT
Those pushing for this suspension stuff need to understand they’ve enabled this which is the start of his inevitable comeback sooner or later. His actual defeat will only come at the hands of the electorate. With him being in the seat he is in this ultimately only helps him. An excuse to get out of a seat he would only lose. I don’t say this gleefully. As someone who is neither a Boris fan nor of this ridiculous law. Everyone comes out of this badly. He didn't want to face the electorate. He took that choice from them by resigning. As I said, nobody! |
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Post by markgoodair on Jun 10, 2023 6:02:32 GMT
One must assume that Johnson has a personal plan in his actions. He is earning good money and he desperately needs that. This step will only increase his earning potential. He is (explicitly within the statement) presuming a Tory defeat, if not necessarily a Labour victory, in the forthcoming election. This removes him from that experience. He protects the illusion that he personally won a majority and that the electorate never lost faith. He will play the role of a seeming supporter, turning up to back his circle while offering faint praise to the current leadership. I would expect him to fight a by-election that I’m sure would be facilitated after the election and then seek the leadership once more. Depending on quite how bad the Tory losses are he might well win. Whatever government is in place will be struggling with adverse circumstances (and the consequences of this government from which he can, in some minds, be distanced). The one thing of which one can be sure is that he’ll be egocentric. His political life has been thin on principle or any other fixed points. Surely his political career is at an end. Don't the rest of the Tory party know and realise what a total and utter liability he has become to their brand.? |
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Post by matureleft on Jun 10, 2023 6:16:52 GMT
One must assume that Johnson has a personal plan in his actions. He is earning good money and he desperately needs that. This step will only increase his earning potential. He is (explicitly within the statement) presuming a Tory defeat, if not necessarily a Labour victory, in the forthcoming election. This removes him from that experience. He protects the illusion that he personally won a majority and that the electorate never lost faith. He will play the role of a seeming supporter, turning up to back his circle while offering faint praise to the current leadership. I would expect him to fight a by-election that I’m sure would be facilitated after the election and then seek the leadership once more. Depending on quite how bad the Tory losses are he might well win. Whatever government is in place will be struggling with adverse circumstances (and the consequences of this government from which he can, in some minds, be distanced). The one thing of which one can be sure is that he’ll be egocentric. His political life has been thin on principle or any other fixed points. Surely his political career is at an end. Don't the rest of the Tory party know and realise what a total and utter liability he has become to their brand.? I try to be objective about this. He probably remains an asset in their appeal to hardcore Brexit fans (although some may have been lost through lockdown), and as a communicator of simple messages in a winning way. He’s obviously kryptonite in some places, not all of which are clearly otherwise lost to the party. The purpose of the party is to win elections. He’s generally been successful at that to date, but arguably not always through his own skills. So for a party so focused he’ll have a strong support base unless and until he faces defeat. |
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Post by aargauer on Jun 10, 2023 6:19:41 GMT
One must assume that Johnson has a personal plan in his actions. He is earning good money and he desperately needs that. This step will only increase his earning potential. He is (explicitly within the statement) presuming a Tory defeat, if not necessarily a Labour victory, in the forthcoming election. This removes him from that experience. He protects the illusion that he personally won a majority and that the electorate never lost faith. He will play the role of a seeming supporter, turning up to back his circle while offering faint praise to the current leadership. I would expect him to fight a by-election that I’m sure would be facilitated after the election and then seek the leadership once more. Depending on quite how bad the Tory losses are he might well win. Whatever government is in place will be struggling with adverse circumstances (and the consequences of this government from which he can, in some minds, be distanced). The one thing of which one can be sure is that he’ll be egocentric. His political life has been thin on principle or any other fixed points. Surely his political career is at an end. Don't the rest of the Tory party know and realise what a total and utter liability he has become to their brand.? Thats the problem - he isn't. |
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Post by batman on Jun 10, 2023 7:37:30 GMT
One must assume that Johnson has a personal plan in his actions. He is earning good money and he desperately needs that. This step will only increase his earning potential. He is (explicitly within the statement) presuming a Tory defeat, if not necessarily a Labour victory, in the forthcoming election. This removes him from that experience. He protects the illusion that he personally won a majority and that the electorate never lost faith. He will play the role of a seeming supporter, turning up to back his circle while offering faint praise to the current leadership. I would expect him to fight a by-election that I’m sure would be facilitated after the election and then seek the leadership once more. Depending on quite how bad the Tory losses are he might well win. Whatever government is in place will be struggling with adverse circumstances (and the consequences of this government from which he can, in some minds, be distanced). The one thing of which one can be sure is that he’ll be egocentric. His political life has been thin on principle or any other fixed points. Surely his political career is at an end. Don't the rest of the Tory party know and realise what a total and utter liability he has become to their brand.? the answer to your question appears to be a No |
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Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Jun 10, 2023 8:02:17 GMT
Any chance of Boris joining Reform and being their candidate, either in this seat or elsewhere?
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Post by aargauer on Jun 10, 2023 8:05:59 GMT
Any chance of Boris joining Reform and being their candidate, either in this seat or elsewhere? No. |
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Post by olympian95 on Jun 10, 2023 8:06:34 GMT
I wonder what effect ULEZ expansion could have here? If the JR is successful, and we will know in about 3 weeks or so, will that give the Tories a boost?
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Post by greatkingrat on Jun 10, 2023 8:09:59 GMT
If Boris were to return to return to parliament at a future election is any recommended suspension by the privileges committee cancelled out or could it still be a potential issue? I guess the first question is can/will the committee recommend a suspension even if the member is no longer a member? I think John Bercow is a precedent, so they will still publish the report along with whatever suspension they recommended. |
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Post by threecrowns on Jun 10, 2023 8:12:35 GMT
Apologies if I've missed this, but when is this by-election likely to take place?
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