|
Post by rcronald on Nov 12, 2023 15:26:38 GMT
Not enough. There should be a recognition of the will of the Catalan people and a willingness to dismantle the Franquista institutions that stand in its way. There should also be a willingness to send members of those institutions to stand trial in the Hague for their actions in 2017. Sarcasm?
|
|
|
Post by observer on Nov 12, 2023 21:07:14 GMT
I saw something odd today with the PP. I was at the Granada protest today (30,000 there according to the police, about 10-15,000 by my estimate). There were thousands of Spain's red and yellow flags borne by protestors. There was only one EU flag. I got home and watched the Madrid protest on TV. About 80,000 there officially. Probably 10,000 Spanish flags. About 30 EU flags. Yet when the wretch Feijoo got on the podium to speak almost all the bearers of EU flags moved behind him. The TV footage of his speech made it look like the Spanish crowds were EU fanatics. Clearly choreographed. Almost certainly party employees under orders to 'doughnut' the wretch with EU flags. Clearly the weirdo was messaging. But to who? The viewing public? Why would he want to influence perceptions in this way? The manipulation was see-through. Unpleasant. Very revealing as to the PP and the media which didn't remark on the blatant staging.
|
|
European Lefty
Labour
Can be bribed with salted liquorice
Posts: 5,623
|
Post by European Lefty on Nov 13, 2023 0:53:01 GMT
Will the deal with the Basque nationalists not cause some controversy as well? Given the history there?
|
|
Foggy
Non-Aligned
Long may it rain
Posts: 5,535
|
Post by Foggy on Nov 13, 2023 3:55:10 GMT
Will the deal with the Basque nationalists not cause some controversy as well? Given the history there? Why would it? José Maria Aznar was originally invested as PM in 1996 with the votes of the PNV-EAJ even though he didn't need those extra 5 to get him to the magic number of 176, meaning the right isn't above doing deals with Basques just for extra reassurance either. Back then the armed ETA campaign was much more active and the two small left-wing Basque parties were seen as being associated with them. Nowadays the network has largely been dismantled (aside from some smalltime drug and weapons smuggling - the former of which Feijóo has no reason to disapprove of anyway) and EH Bildu has in any case denounced terrorism, so I can't see why that should be an issue in 2023.
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 14, 2023 18:21:39 GMT
Putting the amnesty aside... The most cynical bit of this is surely the 15 billion euro bribe to Catalonia by the rest of Spain to cover its overspending.
|
|
iain
Lib Dem
Posts: 10,792
|
Post by iain on Nov 16, 2023 13:18:55 GMT
Sánchez has been successfully invested.
In favour - 179: PSOE (121), Sumar (31), ERC (7), Junts (7), EH Bildu (6), PNV (5), BNG (1), CC (1) Against - 171: PP (137), Vox (33), UPN (1)
In other words, Sánchez has corralled the left; Catalan, Basque and Galician nationalists; and the Canarian regionalist. Against were the right and the (right-wing, anti-Basque) Navarrese regionalist.
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 16, 2023 13:53:22 GMT
There's a surprise intervention in the FT on this topic today by Miriam Gonzalez Durantez, a name that used to be seen more frequently.
(Checking what the link was-her father was a PP senator)
|
|
|
Post by stb12 on Nov 16, 2023 14:02:19 GMT
There's a surprise intervention in the FT on this topic today by Miriam Gonzalez Durantez, a name that used to be seen more frequently. (Checking what the link was-her father was a PP senator) Ah yes, Nick Clegg’s wife
|
|
|
Post by stb12 on Nov 16, 2023 14:03:14 GMT
It’ll be interesting to see if there is any immediate polling backlash concerning this deal. Certainly PP and Vox are going to attack it for all it’s worth
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 16, 2023 14:24:57 GMT
It’ll be interesting to see if there is any immediate polling backlash concerning this deal. Certainly PP and Vox are going to attack it for all it’s worth They're obviously going for the amnesty point, but the 15 billion euro bribe is surely harder to defend. Just asking the question of "why does the rest of Spain have to pay off Catalonia's debts?" would be powerful.
|
|
iain
Lib Dem
Posts: 10,792
|
Post by iain on Nov 16, 2023 15:04:06 GMT
It’ll be interesting to see if there is any immediate polling backlash concerning this deal. Certainly PP and Vox are going to attack it for all it’s worth They're obviously going for the amnesty point, but the 15 billion euro bribe is surely harder to defend. Just asking the question of "why does the rest of Spain have to pay off Catalonia's debts?" would be powerful. I agree, it's a stronger line of attack. PSOE's claim that debt forgiveness will be expanded to other regions but without any specifics is a fairly poor defence. The problem the PP has in landing the attack is that the heir apparent, Ayuso, isn't against special treatment for wealthy regions - she just wants it directed at Madrid instead of Catalonia.
|
|
WJ
Non-Aligned
Posts: 3,102
|
Post by WJ on Nov 16, 2023 18:48:44 GMT
Ayuso publicly called Sanchéz an hijo de puta from the visitors gallery of the Cortez yesterday and is now trying to turn it into a sort of "Let's go Brandon-esque" meme for the Spanish right. In this case using the phrase me gusta la fruta (I like fruit), which her team initially said she had actually said. If there was any doubts that she was on manoeuvres before now, we can safely lay them aside.
Edit: here's the footage:
Sanchéz was bringing up the whiff of corruption which has been hanging over Ayuso in recent times, which prompted her comment.
|
|
maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,032
|
Post by maxque on Nov 17, 2023 0:50:30 GMT
There's a surprise intervention in the FT on this topic today by Miriam Gonzalez Durantez, a name that used to be seen more frequently. (Checking what the link was-her father was a PP senator) Ah yes, Nick Clegg’s wife You mean he is unfaithful to Mark Zuckerburg?
|
|
|
Post by Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells on Nov 19, 2023 7:33:24 GMT
Ayuso publicly called Sanchéz an hijo de puta from the visitors gallery of the Cortez yesterday and is now trying to turn it into a sort of "Let's go Brandon-esque" meme for the Spanish right. In this case using the phrase me gusta la fruta (I like fruit), which her team initially said she had actually said. If there was any doubts that she was on manoeuvres before now, we can safely lay them aside. Edit: here's the footage: Sanchéz was bringing up the whiff of corruption which has been hanging over Ayuso in recent times, which prompted her comment. I'm not particularly familiar with the Spanish parliamentary system, but isn't there a Speaker or similar to intervene? Son of a whore isn't the most offensive Spanish language insult, but it's still below the expectations for members, I'd think?
|
|
ilerda
Conservative
Posts: 1,032
|
Post by ilerda on Nov 19, 2023 9:12:32 GMT
Ayuso publicly called Sanchéz an hijo de puta from the visitors gallery of the Cortez yesterday and is now trying to turn it into a sort of "Let's go Brandon-esque" meme for the Spanish right. In this case using the phrase me gusta la fruta (I like fruit), which her team initially said she had actually said. If there was any doubts that she was on manoeuvres before now, we can safely lay them aside. Edit: here's the footage: Sanchéz was bringing up the whiff of corruption which has been hanging over Ayuso in recent times, which prompted her comment. I'm not particularly familiar with the Spanish parliamentary system, but isn't there a Speaker or similar to intervene? Son of a whore isn't the most offensive Spanish language insult, but it's still below the expectations for members, I'd think? Ayuso isn’t a member, she was watching from the gallery. And it’s quite likely the Speaker didn’t actually hear what she shouted over all the noise.
|
|