maxque
Non-Aligned
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Post by maxque on Jun 22, 2022 0:13:38 GMT
Deeply and multiply flawed man that he is, one thing that JLM seems to be attempting is to recreate the "mainstream left" as a thing. I fear you're being a touch generous to him there. I would argue that he is attempting to recreate the mainstream left but very much as a vehicle for himself and his immediate supporters. After all, would the French Left look as badly-splintered if he himself had decided to stay and fight for control of the PS rather than form his own group? He's like a star striker who never tracks back. I think he would have been forced out of the party, like some of the 'frondeurs' during the Hollande presidency. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jun 22, 2022 7:21:22 GMT
I fear you're being a touch generous to him there. I would argue that he is attempting to recreate the mainstream left but very much as a vehicle for himself and his immediate supporters. After all, would the French Left look as badly-splintered if he himself had decided to stay and fight for control of the PS rather than form his own group? He's like a star striker who never tracks back. I think he would have been forced out of the party, like some of the 'frondeurs' during the Hollande presidency. A fair point. How long will it take for the PS to recover, do you think-or can it? |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,925
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Post by The Bishop on Jun 22, 2022 11:50:27 GMT
I think it is a "dead parrot" in its present form, but those last few words are far from irrelevant in French politics!
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jun 22, 2022 12:25:46 GMT
I think it is a "dead parrot" in its present form, but those last few words are far from irrelevant in French politics! Yeah, French parties can never quite be killed off. Just ask the Radicals! |
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Georg Ebner
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Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,815
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jun 22, 2022 12:49:59 GMT
I think it is a "dead parrot" in its present form, but those last few words are far from irrelevant in French politics! Yeah, French parties can never quite be killed off. Just ask the Radicals! But "Radicalism" (=Jacobinism) has been - like a more modern & radical radicalism on the left (a la anArchism) - a French factor; whereas socialDemocracy has not had the impressive presence as in the UK, in Skandinavia, Germany&Austria, Spain&Portugal or Greece (and not only because of the lack of industry before 1918 or its low prestige afterWards): Jaurès & Blum were typically bourgeois "intellectuals" playing socialism, Mitterand was also not genuine. |
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,029
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Post by Sibboleth on Jun 22, 2022 13:07:50 GMT
It's also worth noting that the continuity between SFIO and the PS is more legal than real: SFIO rebranded itself as the PS after the difficult 1960s, but then the party was taken over - lock, stock and barrel - by Mitterrand and his followers who essentially created an entirely new organisation in Mitterrand's image. The old SFIO cadres soon lost what power they still had left and faded away into the background, ending up largely as supporters of Jospin who wasn't from a SFIO background himself.
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Georg Ebner
Non-Aligned
Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,815
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jun 22, 2022 13:08:16 GMT
Yeah, French parties can never quite be killed off. Just ask the Radicals! But "Radicalism" (=Jacobinism) has been - like a more modern & radical radicalism on the left (a la anArchism) - a French factor; whereas socialDemocracy has not had the impressive presence as in the UK, in Skandinavia, Germany&Austria, Spain&Portugal or Greece (and not only because of the lack of industry before 1918 or its low prestige afterWards): Jaurès & Blum were typically bourgeois "intellectuals" playing socialism, Mitterand was also not genuine. Already before reading E.ROSENSTOCK-HUESSY's revolutionBook i had realized a certain rule: The country, which had participated in the rev. of one era, was the least affected by the next ones. Cf. England 1689 and then leading the counterRev. after 1789. USA & France being revolutionary in the bourgeois era, thus abstaining the most in the following proletarian period. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jun 22, 2022 14:33:35 GMT
It's also worth noting that the continuity between SFIO and the PS is more legal than real: SFIO rebranded itself as the PS after the difficult 1960s, but then the party was taken over - lock, stock and barrel - by Mitterrand and his followers who essentially created an entirely new organisation in Mitterrand's image. The old SFIO cadres soon lost what power they still had left and faded away into the background, ending up largely as supporters of Jospin who wasn't from a SFIO background himself. Who was it that said cruelly of Jospin that he had all the charisma of a retired RE teacher from Sweden? |
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Post by mattbewilson on Jun 22, 2022 19:23:47 GMT
It is worth saying that the traditional socdem parties pretty much held their own which is fairly impressive given they collapsed only two months ago.
Also given the fairly modest proposals of the NUPES agreement it's fair to say that strong showing in this election was based on a platform most moderate centre left voters wanted to see.
As for Mitterrand he was the product of every leftist leader in Europe; promise big but is forced into difficult decisions
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,786
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Post by john07 on Jun 22, 2022 21:00:28 GMT
I think it is a "dead parrot" in its present form, but those last few words are far from irrelevant in French politics! In the 1969 Presidential election, the Socialist (SFIO) candidate. Gaston Defferre, picked up 5.01% of the vote. The PSU candidate, Michel Rochard, collected 3.61%, while the Trotsyist Alain Krivine had 1.06%. Four years earlier, Francois Mitterrand received 44.80% on the final ballot, as a united Left candidate against Charles de Gaulle. Five years later, in 1981, Mitterrand obtained 43.25% on the first ballot and 49.19% on the second ballot against Valery Giscard d'Estaing. In 1981 Mitterrand was elected ahead of Giscard. This was despite the lack of a pre-electoral pact on the left. At one stage Mitterrand was trailing the clown, Coluche, in the early polling for the first ballot. I suspect that there may be future reallignment on the left similar to how Mitterrand created the Socialist Party to replace the SFIO. |
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Post by mattbewilson on Jun 22, 2022 22:12:47 GMT
I think it is a "dead parrot" in its present form, but those last few words are far from irrelevant in French politics! In the 1969 Presidential election, the Socialist (SFIO) candidate. Gaston Defferre, picked up 5.01% of the vote. The PSU candidate, Michel Rochard, collected 3.61%, while the Trotsyist Alain Krivine had 1.06%. Four years earlier, Francois Mitterrand received 44.80% on the final ballot, as a united Left candidate against Charles de Gaulle. Five years later, in 1981, Mitterrand obtained 43.25% on the first ballot and 49.19% on the second ballot against Valery Giscard d'Estaing. In 1981 Mitterrand was elected ahead of Giscard. This was despite the lack of a pre-electoral pact on the left. At one stage Mitterrand was trailing the clown, Coluche, in the early polling for the first ballot. I suspect that there may be future reallignment on the left similar to how Mitterrand created the Socialist Party to replace the SFIO. there needs to be a Mitterrand esk character. One reason for the left falling in line behind JLM is the complete lack of competition. Saying that I have been personally impressed by Fauvre but that's only my own admiration I don't think that even extends to his own party let alone the country |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jun 22, 2022 23:12:00 GMT
I think it is a "dead parrot" in its present form, but those last few words are far from irrelevant in French politics! . In 1981 Mitterrand was elected ahead of Giscard. This was despite the lack of a pre-electoral pact on the left. At one stage Mitterrand was trailing the clown, Coluche, in the early polling for the first ballot. Coluche* and his challenge are best remembered, but even in 81, Mitterrand was regarded as being quite old-fashioned and outright old- he was a decade older than Giscard and Barre, narrowly younger than Chaban-Delmas, and legally old enough to be Chirac's father. Never seen in the UK, and I can't find English subtitles, is this incident in 1981 where the singer Daniel Balavoine attacked him as old-hat and out-of-touch. *Coluche is considered a clown but he was a rather sharp comedian and on occasion a fantastic actor. And did huge amounts for charity, including having a hand in the invention of food banks, an idea Mitterrand co-opted. |
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maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,306
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Post by maxque on Jun 23, 2022 0:25:50 GMT
In the 1969 Presidential election, the Socialist (SFIO) candidate. Gaston Defferre, picked up 5.01% of the vote. The PSU candidate, Michel Rochard, collected 3.61%, while the Trotsyist Alain Krivine had 1.06%. Four years earlier, Francois Mitterrand received 44.80% on the final ballot, as a united Left candidate against Charles de Gaulle. Five years later, in 1981, Mitterrand obtained 43.25% on the first ballot and 49.19% on the second ballot against Valery Giscard d'Estaing. In 1981 Mitterrand was elected ahead of Giscard. This was despite the lack of a pre-electoral pact on the left. At one stage Mitterrand was trailing the clown, Coluche, in the early polling for the first ballot. I suspect that there may be future reallignment on the left similar to how Mitterrand created the Socialist Party to replace the SFIO. there needs to be a Mitterrand esk character. One reason for the left falling in line behind JLM is the complete lack of competition. Saying that I have been personally impressed by Fauvre but that's only my own admiration I don't think that even extends to his own party let alone the country Fauve was considered as a laughing stock, but I feel his reputation is improving, as he keeps making the best strategic choices (left alliances instead of PS-Macron alliances at the 2020 municipal elections, the NUPES deal, which saw the party make gains (and the opponents to it almost wiped)...) However, I don't feel any desire to be President from him. |
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andrea
Non-Aligned
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Post by andrea on Jun 23, 2022 12:50:48 GMT
Jean-Philippe Tanguy is the RN candidate for Finance Committee chair
Yaël Braun-Pivet will be Ensemble candidate for the Assemblée Nationale presidency.
PCF found 6 outre-mer MPs to join them to create a parliamentary group.
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ilerda
Conservative
Posts: 1,098
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Post by ilerda on Jun 23, 2022 13:03:20 GMT
Apparently there's also going to be a group specifically focussed on the overseas/insular MPs (also including the Corsican nationalists) of a general centre-left bent called UTIL ("Ultramarins, territoires, insularités et libertés").
Something of a successor to the old Libertés et territoires group, trying to give more of a voice to the non-metropolitan areas.
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Post by rcronald on Jun 23, 2022 13:27:08 GMT
Jean-Philippe Tanguy is the RN candidate for Finance Committee chair Yaël Braun-Pivet will be Ensemble candidate for the Assemblée Nationale presidency. PCF found 6 outre-mer MPs to join them to create a parliamentary group. Interestingly, he was a DLF member until 2020. |
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andrea
Non-Aligned
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Post by andrea on Jun 23, 2022 13:36:31 GMT
The chairs of the parliamentary groups
Renaissance: Aurore Bergé
Rassemblement national: Marine Le Pen
Les Républicains: Olivier Marleix
Gauche démocrate et républicaine (communistes et apparentés): André Chassaigne
Parti socialiste: Boris Vallaud
La France insoumise: Mathilde Panot
MoDem: Jean-Paul Mattei
Horizons: Laurent Marcangeli
Ecologistes: Julien Bayou and Cyrielle Chatelain
Ultramarins, territoires, insularités, libertés (provisional name): Bertrand Pancher
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Post by minionofmidas on Jun 23, 2022 14:22:55 GMT
The chairs of the parliamentary groups Renaissance: Aurore Bergé is there a reason this isn't called the lrem group? |
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Post by Peter Wilkinson on Jun 23, 2022 15:32:16 GMT
The chairs of the parliamentary groups Renaissance: Aurore Bergé is there a reason this isn't called the lrem group? Do catch up! LREM was apparently reborn on 5th May with an entirely new identity, in celebration of President Macron's then-recent re-election. One has to be distinctly old-fashioned even to recall that it was ever called anything else. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jun 23, 2022 17:59:32 GMT
is there a reason this isn't called the lrem group? Do catch up! LREM was apparently reborn on 5th May with an entirely new identity, in celebration of President Macron's then-recent re-election. One has to be distinctly old-fashioned even to recall that it was ever called anything else. You've got to admire Manu's self-belief. First, name your party after yourself but in a smug way. Then rename it again to imply that you are the Republic. Then again to imply that you are a Renaissance Man. |
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