johnloony
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Post by johnloony on Jun 19, 2022 20:46:46 GMT
I think that France should use FPTP. That might persuade them to stop mucking about with party names, alliances, realignments and inventing new parties every five minutes. If they insist on wanting to use a two-round system, they should use the Bhutan method. Then it would be clearer about who and what is winning and losing. What, massacre the incumbants? Er, not that i am aware of. For in case people don’t know how the Bhutan parliamentary election works: 1. There are 47 constituencies. 2. There are two rounds of election. 3. In the first round, people vote for the party they want to support (N.B. only the party name - there are no individual candidates) 4. The two parties with most votes go through to the second round. The distinctive feature of the Bhutan system is that the “top two parties” are defined nationally, not separately in each constituency. 5. Candidates for the two parties are nominated. 6. In the second round, people vote for the candidate out of the two available. The application of rule 4 would mean that if it were used in the UK, everybody would have to choose between Conservative and Labour in every constituency - even Belfast West or Ceredigion etc. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 20:51:05 GMT
What, massacre the incumbants? Er, not that i am aware of. For in case people don’t know how the Bhutan parliamentary election works: 1. There are 47 constituencies. 2. There are two rounds of election. 3. In the first round, people vote for the party they want to support (N.B. only the party name - there are no individual candidates) 4. The two parties with most votes go through to the second round. The distinctive feature of the Bhutan system is that the “top two parties” are defined nationally, not separately in each constituency. 5. Candidates for the two parties are nominated. 6. In the second round, people vote for the candidate out of the two available. The application of rule 4 would mean that if it were used in the UK, everybody would have to choose between Conservative and Labour in every constituency - even Belfast West or Ceredigion etc. Now there's an interesting hypothetical for someone to look at.... |
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johnloony
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Post by johnloony on Jun 19, 2022 20:57:14 GMT
Er, not that i am aware of. For in case people don’t know how the Bhutan parliamentary election works: 1. There are 47 constituencies. 2. There are two rounds of election. 3. In the first round, people vote for the party they want to support (N.B. only the party name - there are no individual candidates) 4. The two parties with most votes go through to the second round. The distinctive feature of the Bhutan system is that the “top two parties” are defined nationally, not separately in each constituency. 5. Candidates for the two parties are nominated. 6. In the second round, people vote for the candidate out of the two available. The application of rule 4 would mean that if it were used in the UK, everybody would have to choose between Conservative and Labour in every constituency - even Belfast West or Ceredigion etc. Now there's an interesting hypothetical for someone to look at.... There was a similar equivalent fictional election result recently in which someone hypothecated two USA-style parties called the Commonwealth Party and the Democrats. Someone linked to it a few weeks ago. |
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johnloony
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Post by johnloony on Jun 19, 2022 20:58:00 GMT
President Jupiter losing his majority is funny, but otherwise these are pretty gloomy results from most perspectives. Haha! Why “Jupiter”? |
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xenon
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Post by xenon on Jun 19, 2022 21:05:13 GMT
President Jupiter losing his majority is funny, but otherwise these are pretty gloomy results from most perspectives. Haha! Why “Jupiter”? A quick Google suggests that it was used to describe his style of top-down authority akin to the Roman god. I assumed it was just to describe his astronomical ego! |
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johnloony
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Post by johnloony on Jun 19, 2022 21:05:23 GMT
I think that France should use FPTP. That might persuade them to stop mucking about with party names, alliances, realignments and inventing new parties every five minutes. If they insist on wanting to use a two-round system, they should use the Bhutan method. Then it would be clearer about who and what is winning and losing. What, massacre the incumbants? Er… were you thinking of the Nepal royal family massacre of 2001? |
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Post by greenhert on Jun 19, 2022 21:06:57 GMT
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WJ
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Post by WJ on Jun 19, 2022 21:07:00 GMT
Macron famously said after first being elected that he wanted to "rule like Jupiter" i.e. being above the fray and without having to be bothered by the day-to-day banalities of governing.
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Post by greenhert on Jun 19, 2022 21:10:18 GMT
Aisne 3rd continues to be a meme constituency and re-elects its PS incumbent comparatively comfortably under the circumstances. One of Le Pen's strongest constituencies in the Presidential poll and also has the longest SFIO/PS winning streak (back to the mid 1960s). A series of small, bleak postindustrial towns in the north of Picardy, none of which are particularly notable. And a considerable contrast to the prosperous and conservative city of Saint-Quentin (France's answer to Lichfield), one of a small minority of constituencies that elected an LR member. (St Quentin dominates Aisne's 2nd constituency, so that constituency might as well be called St. Quentin). |
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Post by greenhert on Jun 19, 2022 21:16:59 GMT
Strangely enough, Hautes-Pyrenees' 2nd constituency (which contains the shrine of Lourdes) was rather close between Ensemble and NUPES. I have been to Lourdes and I am surprised if there are a significant number of left-wing voters there!
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johnloony
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Post by johnloony on Jun 19, 2022 21:25:55 GMT
A symptom of (a) how much I have not followed the details of party political realignment in France in recent years [i.e. not as much as I should have done]; and (b) how much, and how confusing, the realignment has been - even regardless of (a); is that I have only just realised that there are two different parties called “Ensemble”: the pro-Macron alliance which includes the “En Marche” party as well as other parties en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensemble_Citoyensand the left-wing party which is part of the NUPES coalition en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensemble! I notice that the lefty one has an exclamation mark, whereas the centre-righty one doesn’t. I looked them up on Wikipedia because I was getting confused by posts earlier in the thread talking about ENS (rather than LREM or EM) being the largest party. There should be a law that foreign political parties should not be allowed to change their names, or have confusingly similar names, of form confusing coalitions and alliances, without the official approval of the Electoral Commission in the UK. |
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johnloony
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Post by johnloony on Jun 19, 2022 21:27:48 GMT
Macron famously said after first being elected that he wanted to "rule like Jupiter" i.e. being above the fray and without having to be bothered by the day-to-day banalities of governing. Omg. That means he’s even more of a twit than I thought already. Can’t we just put Macron and Trudeau in a rocket and send it into outer space? |
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johnloony
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Post by johnloony on Jun 19, 2022 21:36:02 GMT
The kerfufflious results from this parliamentary election - and the low turnouts - remind me of something which I’ve never quite been sure of : in the Presidential election, when the second round only had a choice between a far-right candidate and a centre-right candidate, how did inner-city areas vote? i.e. the sort of constituencies which (in a normal party system) would normally vote Labour or Socialist? Presumably low turnouts, but did they vote tactically for Macron in order to stop Le Pen, or vice versa?
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andrea
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Post by andrea on Jun 19, 2022 21:58:59 GMT
Strangely enough, Hautes-Pyrenees' 2nd constituency (which contains the shrine of Lourdes) was rather close between Ensemble and NUPES. I have been to Lourdes and I am surprised if there are a significant number of left-wing voters there! In the Lourdes municipalities it was 62.06 to 37.94 in favor of Ensemble. On first round, RN was runner up there. In that constituency, the town of Tarbes is more competitive for the Left. Parti radical de gauche held that constituency last time. |
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andrea
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Post by andrea on Jun 19, 2022 22:08:00 GMT
That's 89 seats for RN. They have not any other candidate left in the remaining unfinished 11 seats.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Jun 19, 2022 22:10:16 GMT
Macron famously said after first being elected that he wanted to "rule like Jupiter" i.e. being above the fray and without having to be bothered by the day-to-day banalities of governing. Omg. That means he’s even more of a twit than I thought already. Can’t we just put Macron and Trudeau in a rocket and send it into outer space? It's an approach very much in line with de Gaulle's vision for the French Presidency and thus entirely normal - arguably correct and anything else is not - within the constitution of the 5th Republic. He is President, not Prime Minister and if you are going to have an Executive President with a PM there needs to be a difference otherwise the role of PM is pointless. Whether it was a feasible approach given how things are now is another matter. |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Jun 19, 2022 22:12:31 GMT
Er, not that i am aware of. For in case people don’t know how the Bhutan parliamentary election works: 1. There are 47 constituencies. 2. There are two rounds of election. 3. In the first round, people vote for the party they want to support (N.B. only the party name - there are no individual candidates) 4. The two parties with most votes go through to the second round. The distinctive feature of the Bhutan system is that the “top two parties” are defined nationally, not separately in each constituency. 5. Candidates for the two parties are nominated. 6. In the second round, people vote for the candidate out of the two available. The application of rule 4 would mean that if it were used in the UK, everybody would have to choose between Conservative and Labour in every constituency - even Belfast West or Ceredigion etc. Never thought of a system like this before. Sounds interesting. The late lamented jigger would have loved it. |
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Post by oldhamexile on Jun 19, 2022 22:27:55 GMT
Omg. That means he’s even more of a twit than I thought already. Can’t we just put Macron and Trudeau in a rocket and send it into outer space? It's an approach very much in line with de Gaulle's vision for the French Presidency and thus entirely normal - arguably correct and anything else is not - within the constitution of the 5th Republic. He is President, not Prime Minister and if you are going to have an Executive President with a PM there needs to be a difference otherwise the role of PM is pointless. Whether it was a feasible approach given how things are now is another matter. And it's perhaps an indication of our different political cultures that Macron chooses the metaphor of an Olympian God, whereas Harold Wilson put it this way: “I’m going to be what they used to call a deep-lying centre-half. I can’t say I’d be a sweeper, because no one outside football would understand.” |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jun 19, 2022 22:54:06 GMT
Breton regionalist elected with 73.5% of the vote in Morbihan-4ème. Is that their first ever member of the national assembly? There was another one in Finistère I think. Can't remember his name. The defeated Modem candidate appears to be another one of these celebrity sailors that France is oddly fond of. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jun 19, 2022 22:57:37 GMT
Reports that Élisabeth Moreno lost in North-West Africa. NUPES says they have beaten Roxana Maracineanu. Beaten by a lady who led a strike at an Ibis hotel-tussling with Accor is serious fighting with the French business elite. Why has Macron been so obsessed with former sportswomen as his sports ministers? Flessel, Maracineanu, Oudea-Castera. |
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