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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Oct 1, 2021 8:49:08 GMT
Is the new councillor Blossom Gottlieb possibly related to the Conservative-turned Lib Dem Winchester councillor Kim Gottlieb?
EDIT: I understand not related.
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Post by london(ex)tory on Oct 1, 2021 9:01:20 GMT
The corollary of not voting for someone isn't that you hate them. I've never hated any of my political opponents. But then I'm a Liberal. Quoted to reinforce my agreement. Hate prompts an inability to think rationally, let alone objectively. But a willingness to look at politics as a rational activity isn't confined to one party, and nor is its opposite, visceral impulses. True, but there’s only one party whose deputy leader thinks it’s perfectly acceptable to go around calling opponents “scum”. |
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Post by andrewp on Oct 1, 2021 9:02:39 GMT
Not sure we have had the Tutbury and Outwoods actual numbers
Con 549
Ind 464
Lab 186
Green 39
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Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,901
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Post by Tony Otim on Oct 1, 2021 9:12:58 GMT
Not sure we have had the Tutbury and Outwoods actual numbers Con 549 Ind 464 Lab 186 Green 39 So Labour and the ex-labour indy combined got 101 votes more than the Tories... |
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Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,901
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Post by Tony Otim on Oct 1, 2021 9:14:51 GMT
After the last few months, can we lay to rest the trope that the Greens can't do by-elections?😉
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Oct 1, 2021 9:15:24 GMT
Though I imagine if he had stood again for Labour not all of those 464 votes he got as an independent would have stayed with him.
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Post by matureleft on Oct 1, 2021 9:15:25 GMT
Quoted to reinforce my agreement. Hate prompts an inability to think rationally, let alone objectively. But a willingness to look at politics as a rational activity isn't confined to one party, and nor is its opposite, visceral impulses. True, but there’s only one party whose deputy leader thinks it’s perfectly acceptable to go around calling opponents “scum”. A good example of what I'm saying. I have never used, nor would I use, a word like that (or even rather milder terms). However one of the things you learn gradually is that politics can be visceral to some.
It was a shock to me when young to be greeted on the doorstep by abuse at the mention of Labour. Rare in my experience (perhaps because I'm a 6'2" bloke...). And equally a shock to hear supporters saying things about Tories. Rayner clearly has a visceral view of politics. I thus doubt that her remarks will do her much harm with either a fair number of Labour voters or the wider electorate who like "politics with feeling" and "authenticity". I've become used to this divide and try to think my way into the minds of voters who see things this way, since clearly that's what many want. Otherwise how to explain the popularity of "I speak my mind" politicians of all brands?
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Post by carlton43 on Oct 1, 2021 9:23:22 GMT
A little, thanks. I feel the need occasionally to speak up for my kind of politics... Of course the divide between the two ways of thinking can be a barrier to understanding. I can recall a discussion with a party colleague about fox hunting. He was entirely unable to discuss the matter in any other terms than his hate for red-coated toffs riding around bullying people and killing animals. And I had a similar inability to grasp why a highly intelligent man should see the subject in such (to me) simplistic terms. Those are interesting areas of the psyche to examine and to ponder upon. I have quite similar thoughts to you on many political issues, but like to keep alive a certain persona on this Forum where I spend time either amusing myself or trying on a given position to see the reactions. I have a close friend who is a Momentum Corbynite. He is kind, considerate, enquiring and very artistic and personally considerate. But on the USA and Palestine he has such extreme views and will stoop to such invective that I really worry as to what must be a deep-seated cause. I really cannot fathom what it is that triggers such a reaction in those two areas. I am a perpetual member of two hunts in Kent and very much an old school lover of the Jorrocks feel for hunting and a pre-railway age of fox hunting. I can though see why people of a certain type and partially of a certain class, up on horseback, some in red (Pink to us of course and I never wore it myself), all with whips or a crop; all enjoying a chase and all enjoying a kill, could wind up the modern tendency that revolts at all of it. It was a very classic culture war. Perhaps the very start of our present Culture Wars? I am less visceral in the defence than they were in the attack. It was very odd to me that the love of a fox justified so much hurt to horses, hounds and people! It led me to see it was not about animals at all really or it would have been far less vicious. |
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Post by carlton43 on Oct 1, 2021 9:26:02 GMT
Is the new councillor Blossom Gottlieb possibly related to the Conservative-turned Lib Dem Winchester councillor Kim Gottlieb? EDIT: I understand not related. I don't know Dearie but God probably loves her? One of the lesser branches of the Hampshire Gottliebs? |
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Post by tonyhill on Oct 1, 2021 9:33:38 GMT
I thought you'd rise to the bait carlton!
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,925
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Post by The Bishop on Oct 1, 2021 9:46:13 GMT
LibDem candidate now 4.8 (3.8/1) on Smarkets as money floods in to support him. Serious question, how much money *does* go on a council byelection? I imagine the market must be pretty easy to "ramp" if anybody was so minded. |
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
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Post by Khunanup on Oct 1, 2021 9:46:53 GMT
HORNDEAN RESULT GREEN. 320 CON. 291 IND. 40 TURNOUT 26.78% Impressive in that area. Helped a lot, no doubt, by the Lib Dems standing aside and the Independent being an ex-UKIP regular, unlikely to take many potential votes away from a Green candidate. Undoubtedly. Greenies wouldn't have stood a chance if there'd been a Lib Dem candidate (which I would judge as being a deliberate act). |
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Post by andrewp on Oct 1, 2021 9:49:36 GMT
Swale Priory is a Lib Dem win according to Twitter
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Post by carlton43 on Oct 1, 2021 9:50:52 GMT
I thought you'd rise to the bait carlton! I am more inclined to rise to the bate as I am an old fish and wary of hook blandishments. In fact not really made your connection. What did you mean? |
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Post by Robert Waller on Oct 1, 2021 9:53:42 GMT
Horndean %, Britain Elects style
GRN: 49.2% (+33.3)
CON: 44.7% (-8.0)
IND: 6.1% (-12.6)
Green GAIN from Conservative.
No LDem (-12.8) as prev.
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Pimpernal
Forum Regular
A left-wing agenda within a right-wing framework...
Posts: 2,873 
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Post by Pimpernal on Oct 1, 2021 9:56:38 GMT
Swale Borough Council by-election - Priory ward
Andy Culham (Conservative) 173 (30.6%)
Mike Henderson (Liberal Democrats) 215 (38.0%) - Elected
Viv Moore (Green) 128 (22.7%)
Frances Rehal (Labour) 49 (8.7%)
Turnout: 25.8%.
Change:
Lib Dems down 13.8%
Conservatives up 1.6%
Greens up 15.2%
Labour down 3.0%
For reference - the 2019 result
2019 result:
Ben A Martin (Liberal Democrats) 382 (51.8%)
Andy Culham (Conservative) 215 (29.1%)
Jennifer Hamilton (Labour) 86 (11.7%)
Peter Hutchinson (Greens) 55 (7.5%)
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Tony Otim
Green
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Post by Tony Otim on Oct 1, 2021 9:57:28 GMT
Though I imagine if he had stood again for Labour not all of those 464 votes he got as an independent would have stayed with him. Almost certainly true. On the other hand if Labour hadn't stood he would probably have won as an indy... |
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Post by tucson on Oct 1, 2021 10:32:58 GMT
And even more obviously hate the Conservatives! That is of no relevence at all here, or on this very LD meme of needing an absolute majority to be valid. The clear truth being that in most places everyone dislikes the LDs and the Greens even more. These are just plain facts. Suck in up Malarious! You are a very angry person. 😂 |
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Post by middleenglander on Oct 1, 2021 10:39:26 GMT
East Hampshire: Horndean Downs - Green gain from Conservative| Party | 2021 votes | 2021 share | since 2019 | | since 2015 * | since 2011 * | | Green | 320 | 49.2% | +33.3% |
| from nowhere | from nowhere | | Conservative | 291 | 44.7% | -8.0% |
| -25.5% | -19.8% | | Independent | 40 | 6.1% | -12.6% |
| from nowhere | from nowhere | | Liberal Democrat |
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| -12.8% |
| -7.1% | -24.2% | | UKIP |
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| -15.4% |
| | Labour |
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| -7.3% | -11.4% | | Total votes | 651 |
| 81% |
| Row 8 column 6 | Row 8 column 7 |
* boundary changes Swing: Conservative to Green 20¾% since 2019 Council now: 31 Conservative, 8 Liberal Democrat, 2 Labour, 1 Green, 1 Independent East Staffordshire: Tutbury & Outwoods - Conservative hold | Party | 2021 votes | 2021 share | since 2019 "top" | since 2019 "average" | since 2015 "top" | since 2015 "average" | | Conservative | 549 | 44.3% | -13.4% | -13.4% | -2.8% | -2.0% | | Independent ^ | 464 | 37.5% | from nowhere | from nowhere | from nowhere | from nowhere | | Labour | 186 | 15.0% | -27.2% | -27.2% | -10.6% | -9.7% | | Green | 39 | 3.2% | from nowhere | from nowhere | -4.6% | -5.1% | | UKIP |
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| -19.5% | -20.7% | | Total votes | 1,238 |
| 77% | 80% | 33% | 35% |
^ Independent was Labour candidate in 2019 Swing: not meaningful Council now: 24 Conservative, 11 Labour, 2 Independent, 1 Liberal Democrat, 1 Centre Right Independent Eden: Penrith West - Liberal Democrat gain from Conservative| Party | 2021 votes | 2021 share | since 2019 "top" | since 2019 "average" | 2015 result | | Liberal Democrat | 173 | 43.5% | +2.8% | +1.4% | 35.9% | | Conservative | 87 | 21.9% | -1.0% | -1.8% | 34.3% | | Independent | 51 | 12.8% | from nowhere | from nowhere |
| | Labour | 40 | 10.1% | -12.1% | -9.4% | 29.9% | | Putting Cumbria First | 28 | 7.0% | from nowhere | from nowhere |
| | Green | 19 | 4.8% | from nowhere | from nowhere |
| | UKIP |
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| -14.4% | -14.9% |
| | Total votes | 398 |
| 57% | 59% | 25% |
Swing: if meaningful Conservative to Liberal Democrat 2% / 1½% since 2019 Council now: 13 Conservative, 12 Liberal Democrat, 5 Independent Alliance, 4 Independent Group, 2 Labour, 2 Green Sunderland: Hetton - Labour hold | Party | 2021 B votes | 2021 B share | since 2021 | since 2019 | since 2018 | since 2016 | | Labour | 661 | 31.6% | -13.1% | -1.7% | -21.9% | -20.2% | | Liberal Democrat | 634 | 30.3% | +28.1% | +26.6% | +28.4% | +27.2% | | Independent Geddis | 386 | 18.5% | -1.2% | -3.1% | -10.4% | +13.9% | | Conservative | 303 | 14.5% | -4.9% | +8.8% | +1.5% | +9.1% | | Independent Allen | 67 | 3.2% | from nowhere | from nowhere | from nowhere | from nowhere | | Green | 41 | 2.0% | -0.9% | from nowhere | -0.7% | from nowhere | | UKIP |
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| -11.1% | -28.7% |
| -35.1% | | Democrats & Veterans |
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| -7.0% |
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| | Total votes | 2,092 |
| 74% | 70% | 76% | 71% |
Swing: labour to Liberal Democrat 20½% since May, 14¼% since 2019, 25½% since 2018 and 23¾% since 2016 Council now: 42 Labour, 19 Conservative, 12 Liberal Democrat, 2 Wearside Independent Swale: Priory - Liberal Democrat hold | Party | 2021 votes | 2021 share | since 2019 | since 2015 | | Liberal Democrat ^ | 215 | 38.1% | -13.7% | from nowhere | | Conservative | 173 | 30.6% | +1.5% | +1.5% | | Green | 128 | 22.7% | +15.2%% | +17.7% | | Labour | 49 | 8.7% | -3.0% | -7.4% | | Independent |
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| -49.9% | | Total votes | 565 |
| 77% | 46% |
^ Liberal Democrat candidate was Independent councillor elected in 2015 Swing: Liberal Democrat to Conservative 7½% since 2019 Council now: 17 Conservative, 10 Labour, 8 Swale Independent Alliance, 4 Liberal Democrat, 3 Independent, 2 Green, 2 Independent First, 1 Reform West Suffolk: The Rows - Conservative gain from Independent who did not contest seat | Party | 2021 votes | 2021 share | since 2019 "top" | since 2019 "average" | | Conservative | 428 | 65.2% | +26.5% | +26.1% | | Labour | 126 | 19.2% | from nowhere | from nowhere | | Liberal Democrat | 102 | 15.5% | from nowhere | from nowhere | | Independents |
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| -61.3% | -60.9% | | Total votes | 656 |
| 63% | 72% |
Swing: not meaningful Council now: 41 Conservative, 11 Independent, 6 West Suffolk Independent, 4 Labour, 1 Green, 1 not specified
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Post by carlton43 on Oct 1, 2021 10:40:50 GMT
That is of no relevence at all here, or on this very LD meme of needing an absolute majority to be valid. The clear truth being that in most places everyone dislikes the LDs and the Greens even more. These are just plain facts. Suck in up Malarious! You are a very angry person. 😂 In fact I very rarely get angry except with the Apple TV Entertainment control monitor. |
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