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Post by John Chanin on Oct 22, 2019 14:35:41 GMT
Ok guys. I’m not so ignorant as not to know that the far north contains a high proportion of aboriginal communities and mining camps. But why do these people vote NDP? This is not self-evident.
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Oct 22, 2019 14:36:39 GMT
Eleven of the NDPs remaining 24 seats are in British Columbia, including that of their leader. Though one suspects it would have been better for them had he lost.
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Oct 22, 2019 14:44:42 GMT
Ok guys. I’m not so ignorant as not to know that the far north contains a high proportion of aboriginal communities and mining camps. But why do these people vote NDP? This is not self-evident. As a 'labour' party (an extremely ineffectual one, sure, but) it makes sense that the NDP would have appeal for people working in resources industries, or at least those organised along traditional lines. Native vote is more complicated: there isn't actually any inherent loyalty to any party (why would there be?), but the NDP have tried to maintain good relations with tribal leaders (as have the Liberals, of course) and recently have started to benefit a bit from the, understandable, low-key anger at the federal government. Which is interesting because historically there was a tendency to swing towards the government of the day to try to get access. Not gone completely as a tendency, but no longer dominant. |
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maxque
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Post by maxque on Oct 22, 2019 14:56:35 GMT
Ok guys. I’m not so ignorant as not to know that the far north contains a high proportion of aboriginal communities and mining camps. But why do these people vote NDP? This is not self-evident. Forestry and mining are one of the few sectors where unions are still powerful. |
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Oct 22, 2019 14:58:27 GMT
Anyway, the general pattern of these results is actually a little disturbing. For the comparatively good health of the Canadian polity the NDP should probably pick a Westerner as leader.
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Izzyeviel
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Post by Izzyeviel on Oct 22, 2019 16:43:05 GMT
Canada have voted to keep a privileged, racist and misogynistic dick in charge.If Trump had done the black facing and the alleged scandals involving women, the left would have gone hysterical and be asking for blood. However due to Justin claiming to be a feminist and other identity politics crap like dressing up in an traditional Indian attire, it was ok to vote for him. The left constantly talk about the need to have less privileged white males in power. Well Justin Trudeau is as privileged as one can be. Aren't you a Trump supporter? I thought you guys loved this sort of thing. |
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Izzyeviel
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Post by Izzyeviel on Oct 22, 2019 17:16:47 GMT
From another forum/user
Best riding by Party
(Sorry about some of the French names)
Bloc Party
Joliette 58.6
Montcalm 58.2
Bécancour--Nicolet--Saurel 56.8
Manicouagan 54.2
Repentigny 53.4
Rivière-du-Nord 52.3
Conservative:
Battle River--Crowfoot 85.4
Souris--Moose Mountain 84.4
Grande Prairie--Mackenzie 84.4
Lakeland 84.2
Bow River 83.9
Foothills 82.3
Yellowhead 82.1
Cypress Hills--Grasslands 81.2
Peace River--Westlock 80.7
Red Deer--Mountain View 80.1
Red Deer--Lacombe 79.8
Fort McMurray--Cold Lake 79.2
Medicine Hat--Cardston--Warner 79.1
Battlefords--Lloydminster 79
Carlton Trail--Eagle Creek 78.8
Sturgeon River--Parkland 77.5
Yorkton--Melville 76.5
Calgary Shepard 75.2
Calgary Midnapore 74.3
Sherwood Park--Fort Saskatchewan 73.5
Edmonton--Wetaskiwin 72.1
Moose Jaw--Lake Centre--Lanigan 71.3
Portage--Lisgar 71
Banff--Airdrie 71
Calgary Heritage 70.8
Calgary Signal Hill 70.4
Green:
Saanich--Gulf Islands 48.8
Nanaimo--Ladysmith 34.4
Fredericton 33.2
Victoria 28.9
Malpeque 26.5
Beauséjour 26.5
Kitchener Centre 25.8
Esquimalt--Saanich--Sooke 25.4
Guelph 25
Indepenent
Vancouver Granville 32.2
Markham--Stouffville 20.8
Sydney--Victoria 13.9
Liberal
Scarborough--Rouge Park 62.3
Scarborough--Guildwood 61.7
Etobicoke North 61.3
Humber River--Black Creek 61.3
Saint-Léonard--Saint-Michel 61.2
NDP
Vancouver East 52.2
Churchill--Keewatinook Aski 50.2
Vancouver Kingsway 48.8
Edmonton Strathcona 47.3
St. John's East 47.1
Hamilton Centre 46.5
Elmwood--Transcona 45.7
PPC
Beauce 28.4
Nipissing--Timiskaming 5.3
Charleswood--St. James--Assiniboia--Headingley 4.3
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maxque
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Post by maxque on Oct 22, 2019 18:55:24 GMT
Despite huge gains in the popular votes, the Conservatives lost 2% in Ontario and 1% in Quebec.
Gains were in the wrong places (+10% in Alberta, +16% in Saskatchewan).
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Post by timrollpickering on Oct 22, 2019 20:28:33 GMT
Con gain from Lib (21): -Regina-Wascana (SK) Quite a major blow for the Liberals. Ralph Goodale saw a majority of over 10,000 overturned and lost by more than 7,000 after representing the riding for 26 years (and was previously an MP in the 1970s then had a period in provincial politics). He was the nearest to a deputy prime minister and also a key link between the Liberals and the west. It's not easy to see how he can be replaced. |
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Post by Merseymike on Oct 22, 2019 21:08:05 GMT
The NDP experiences the same FPTP squeeze as the LibDems do here.
Also the BQ are not a right-wing nationalist party.
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Oct 22, 2019 21:33:02 GMT
]Quite a major blow for the Liberals. Ralph Goodale saw a majority of over 10,000 overturned and lost by more than 7,000 after representing the riding for 26 years (and was previously an MP in the 1970s then had a period in provincial politics). He was the nearest to a deputy prime minister and also a key link between the Liberals and the west. It's not easy to see how he can be replaced. Basically brought down by the same factor that has often given him such large majorities: small provinces have little say over federal policy, so any link to the top of government is valuable. Good news for Goodale so long as he was as high as the province was likely to get. Bad news for Goodale when the Conservative PM candidate holds the seat next door. Not surprised that he lost, am surprised that it was by so much. If this is the end for him then the NDP will probably emerge as the challengers in Wascana: outside Goodale himself and certain tribal leaders in the north there is basically no Liberal bench in Saskatchewan. |
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Post by polaris on Oct 23, 2019 11:24:29 GMT
]Quite a major blow for the Liberals. Ralph Goodale saw a majority of over 10,000 overturned and lost by more than 7,000 after representing the riding for 26 years (and was previously an MP in the 1970s then had a period in provincial politics). He was the nearest to a deputy prime minister and also a key link between the Liberals and the west. It's not easy to see how he can be replaced. Basically brought down by the same factor that has often given him such large majorities: small provinces have little say over federal policy, so any link to the top of government is valuable. Good news for Goodale so long as he was as high as the province was likely to get. Bad news for Goodale when the Conservative PM candidate holds the seat next door. Not surprised that he lost, am surprised that it was by so much. If this is the end for him then the NDP will probably emerge as the challengers in Wascana: outside Goodale himself and certain tribal leaders in the north there is basically no Liberal bench in Saskatchewan. I assume that Scheer being from Saskatchewan explains how the Conservatives managed to get 65% of the vote in that province. |
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Oct 23, 2019 11:52:12 GMT
I assume that Scheer being from Saskatchewan explains how the Conservatives managed to get 65% of the vote in that province. It's that when combined with the fact that the present incarnation of Western Alienation (which is a much more serious threat to the stability of the Canadian state than people outside Canada realise) is heavily petro-based, yes. |
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Post by polaris on Oct 23, 2019 12:14:40 GMT
I assume that Scheer being from Saskatchewan explains how the Conservatives managed to get 65% of the vote in that province. It's that when combined with the fact that the present incarnation of Western Alienation (which is a much more serious threat to the stability of the Canadian state than people outside Canada realise) is heavily petro-based, yes. I think the same was true of the previous incarnation of Western Alienation under Justin Trudeau's father in the 1970s. |
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Post by redvers on Oct 23, 2019 12:33:50 GMT
Anyway, the general pattern of these results is actually a little disturbing. For the comparatively good health of the Canadian polity the NDP should probably pick a Westerner as leader. The thesis is argued by some that the NDP gave up the battle for 'western alienation' voters when the party selected Audrey McLaughlin over former British Columbia premier Dave Barrett in 1989. The CCF/NDP were quite good at competing for the sorts of voters we now define as part of this 'western alienation' movement, but they were losing the game even by 1989. After McLaughlin won, so goes the thesis, the party concentrated far too much on eastern Canada and Quebec and surrendered the West to the Reform Party (which then eventually became the modern-day Conservatives).
Simplistic I'm sure, but it is telling how it isn't just Alberta that's gone ultra-Conservative (as usual), but Saskatchewan too. The birthplace of the CCF/NDP. Their spiritual home, and where it was the case, not too long ago, that the NDP formed the natural party of government provincially. The federal results emphasise further the poor chances the NDP have at the provincial election next year.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Oct 23, 2019 12:53:07 GMT
This election is not unlike ours in 2005, but in even more exaggerated form. Nobody really won, save for the Bloc who fought a depressingly demagogic campaign. Should we rephrase that as "their usual campaign"? |
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Oct 23, 2019 13:16:05 GMT
It's that when combined with the fact that the present incarnation of Western Alienation (which is a much more serious threat to the stability of the Canadian state than people outside Canada realise) is heavily petro-based, yes. I think the same was true of the previous incarnation of Western Alienation under Justin Trudeau's father in the 1970s. The first incarnation, yes, but not the second - which is why Reform and then the Canadian Annoyance did so well in BC. |
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Oct 23, 2019 13:17:19 GMT
This election is not unlike ours in 2005, but in even more exaggerated form. Nobody really won, save for the Bloc who fought a depressingly demagogic campaign. Should we rephrase that as "their usual campaign"? It was nastier and more overt than normal. I'm not sure if there was all that much difference between it and the sort of campaigns Le Pen runs these days. |
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Oct 23, 2019 13:25:11 GMT
The thesis is argued by some that the NDP gave up the battle for 'western alienation' voters when the party selected Audrey McLaughlin over former British Columbia premier Dave Barrett in 1989. The CCF/NDP were quite good at competing for the sorts of voters we now define as part of this 'western alienation' movement, but they were losing the game even by 1989. After McLaughlin won, so goes the thesis, the party concentrated far too much on eastern Canada and Quebec and surrendered the West to the Reform Party (which then eventually became the modern-day Conservatives). Simplistic I'm sure, but it is telling how it isn't just Alberta that's gone ultra-Conservative (as usual), but Saskatchewan too. The birthplace of the CCF/NDP. Their spiritual home, and where it was the case, not too long ago, that the NDP formed the natural party of government provincially. The federal results emphasise further the poor chances the NDP have at the provincial election next year. It is simplistic but not entirely wrong. Though, again, with regards to this election in Saskatchewan the prospect of having one of its MPs as PM had a big effect for reasons noted above. The provincial party's difficulties are a little different: as much as anything else they're just not used to functioning as an opposition against a government that is not fundamentally opposed to their policy legacy: the Saskatchewan Party is pretty moderate (in a crass 'free money for everyone' kind of way), whereas the PCs and before them (and a long time ago now!) Liberals were really not at all. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Oct 23, 2019 13:54:35 GMT
Should we rephrase that as "their usual campaign"? It was nastier and more overt than normal. I'm not sure if there was all that much difference between it and the sort of campaigns Le Pen runs these days. When you consider that the Bloc was once led by a genuine political titan and intellectual like Bouchard, the state of some of them these days is quite dreadful. |
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