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Post by No Offence Alan on Jul 26, 2019 16:55:55 GMT
Oh and in 2016 the Podsmead result was Lab 52 Con 48 (sound familiar?) This time, even more strikingly, LibDem+Lab+Green 52 and Con+BxP+UKIP 48  But Lab should be on the Leave side of the equation. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jul 26, 2019 17:12:30 GMT
Oh and in 2016 the Podsmead result was Lab 52 Con 48 (sound familiar?) This time, even more strikingly, LibDem+Lab+Green 52 and Con+BxP+UKIP 48 But Lab should be on the Leave side of the equation. Why do Lib Dems keep telling everyone this? You give the impression you'd rather Labour back leave as a matter of short term party tactics even if it makes Britain leaving the EU much more likely. It's pathetic. You're a pathetic party. |
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Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
Posts: 9,746
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Post by Chris from Brum on Jul 26, 2019 17:18:56 GMT
But Lab should be on the Leave side of the equation. Why do Lib Dems keep telling everyone this? You give the impression you'd rather Labour back leave as a matter of short term party tactics even if it makes Britain leaving the EU much more likely. It's pathetic. You're a pathetic party. Oh, I dunno, something to do with the leader and his handlers all being leavers of long standing? You got a better idea? |
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Post by greenchristian on Jul 26, 2019 17:19:31 GMT
But Lab should be on the Leave side of the equation. Why do Lib Dems keep telling everyone this? You give the impression you'd rather Labour back leave as a matter of short term party tactics even if it makes Britain leaving the EU much more likely. It's pathetic. You're a pathetic party. You appear to be misunderstanding the point being made. Official Labour policy is to leave the EU, and it has been since shortly after the referendum. Therefore,if you are comparing Leave-supporting parties and Remain-supporting parties, then Labour belongs on the Leave side unless and until it changes its Brexit policy. That's all that is meant by such statements, and nothing more should be read into them.
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Post by finsobruce on Jul 26, 2019 17:26:29 GMT
Why do Lib Dems keep telling everyone this? You give the impression you'd rather Labour back leave as a matter of short term party tactics even if it makes Britain leaving the EU much more likely. It's pathetic. You're a pathetic party. You appear to be misunderstanding the point being made. Official Labour policy is to leave the EU, and it has been since shortly after the referendum. Therefore,if you are comparing Leave-supporting parties and Remain-supporting parties, then Labour belongs on the Leave side unless and until it changes its Brexit policy. That's all that is meant by such statements, and nothing more should be read into them.
The problem with the argument is that it represents all Labour voters as being leave voters and that people have only voted Labour because they support Leave, thus underestimating the support for Remain - which would appear to be counterproductive if you want to claim the largest support possible for Remain.
Just Sayin' .
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Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
Posts: 9,746
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Post by Chris from Brum on Jul 26, 2019 17:42:04 GMT
You appear to be misunderstanding the point being made. Official Labour policy is to leave the EU, and it has been since shortly after the referendum. Therefore,if you are comparing Leave-supporting parties and Remain-supporting parties, then Labour belongs on the Leave side unless and until it changes its Brexit policy. That's all that is meant by such statements, and nothing more should be read into them.
The problem with the argument is that it represents all Labour voters as being leave voters and that people have only voted Labour because they support Leave, thus underestimating the support for Remain - which would appear to be counterproductive if you want to claim the largest support possible for Remain.
Just Sayin' .
Understood. But Labour voters don't determine party policy as followed in Parliament, and it looks like the party members don't get much of a say either. Sad but true. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Jul 26, 2019 17:53:43 GMT
How is it David that a perfectly reasonable discussion on the structure and theory of 'Swing' conducted without any personal references let alone prsonal abuse, is terminated at the request of Admin and the Mods, with which we comply, yet ever after a group of LDs are permitted to indulge in blatant gormless trolling on the subject,remorselessly calculated as a permanent wind-up and to try and get some of us to re-enter in defence of common sense and truth, and then of course we can be abused again and possibly banned for not observing the request? It seems that the LDs have some sort of let or pass on this subject. They are permitted to be stupid and to blatantly troll, result by result, and we are obliged to sit quietly and just accept the moronic abuse? Why is that do you think? Why are the LDs such very nasty people? Why do the Mods do nothing? Don't know. No they're not. Because they have a sense of humour. |
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Post by liverpoolliberal on Jul 26, 2019 17:56:05 GMT
But Lab should be on the Leave side of the equation. Why do Lib Dems keep telling everyone this? You give the impression you'd rather Labour back leave as a matter of short term party tactics even if it makes Britain leaving the EU much more likely. It's pathetic. You're a pathetic party. If Labour wins a snap GE this Autumn, does PM Corbyn keep us in or make us leave the EU? Given the policy at the moment is to re-negotiate the deal to make it more Labour-y, it is perfectly valid to describe the Labour Party as a party that wants us to leave the EU, even if that isn't what the vast majority of the people in the Labour Party want. I would also reflect on the fact that many members of the Labour Party are happy to call us literal murderers due to the Coalition and austerity, before branding us pathetic for pointing out that the policy of a Corbyn led Labour government is to leave the EU. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Jul 26, 2019 18:01:08 GMT
Hi. As a newcomer who enjoys seeing the weekly swings between party's I today's volatile situation I do think a couple of commentators need to relax more.Calling all lib dems stupid people is not constructive And that is a rather intrusive and aggressive first post. Perhaps you will be in better humour after your exile in Siberia? Look forward to hearing from you next in say 7-years time? By the way raskolnikov that's Carlton's way of saying "welcome to the Forum, and I hope you enjoy posting on here". He just has his own way of saying these things.  |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Jul 26, 2019 18:05:44 GMT
I don't want to make anyone feel old but my grandparents weren't even married yet in 1964, so that's a bit out of my perspective. Amazing! My Father was born in the reign of Victoria and one grandparent was involved in the siege of Paris during the Franco Prussian War. I remember the by-election in 1959 (my last full year at school) and the victor Lt.Cmdr. Kerans who had been the hero of The Yangtse Incident winning on a personal vote of nationalism and goodwill. I think he was just a one term member? There was quite a good film of the incident with Richard Todd as Kerans on a naval vessel well up a Chinese river being shelled by commie artilliary from one bank. He got caught on a mud shoal and lost a lot dead from action and more being taken by heat in an Asian high summer on a metal boat not moving. Great story. An interesting take on a "great story".  |
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Post by markgoodair on Jul 26, 2019 18:09:23 GMT
Labour are effectively finished as a national party of government thanks to their contradictory views on Brexit which has created the biggest constitutional crisis since the second word war . Corbyn has been worse than useless on this subject. If we do crash out of the EU Labour can expect to lose dozens of seats across remain supporting London to the Liberal Democrats. Expect more progressive members to resign their membership on mass.
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Post by finsobruce on Jul 26, 2019 18:22:50 GMT
The problem with the argument is that it represents all Labour voters as being leave voters and that people have only voted Labour because they support Leave, thus underestimating the support for Remain - which would appear to be counterproductive if you want to claim the largest support possible for Remain.
Just Sayin' .
Understood. But Labour voters don't determine party policy as followed in Parliament, and it looks like the party members don't get much of a say either. Sad but true. Nobody ever said they did, and as you point out the views of members tend only to get a look in when they chime in with the prevailing mood in the leadership. But that's no reason to give up - this is politics after all - and make things look even worse than they already are. |
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Post by Merseymike on Jul 26, 2019 18:26:04 GMT
Labour are effectively finished as a national party of government thanks to their contradictory views on Brexit which has created the biggest constitutional crisis since the second word war . Corbyn has been worse than useless on this subject. If we do crash out of the EU Labour can expect to lose dozens of seats across remain supporting London to the Liberal Democrats. Expect more progressive members to resign their membership on mass. If we do crash out it will be because Parliament votes to have confidence in the Government given their apparent intention to have a no deal outcome And because when there was an opportunity to have a softer Brexit the Remainers in Parliament who would accept nothing other than staying in voted against the attempt to find agreement via the indicative votes. Should we end up leaving without a deal the urgent priority will be to develop policies for a Britain outside the EU and provide a clear alternative to the Tories offshore Singapore plans. |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jul 26, 2019 18:36:00 GMT
Labour are effectively finished as a national party of government thanks to their contradictory views on Brexit which has created the biggest constitutional crisis since the second word war . Corbyn has been worse than useless on this subject. If we do crash out of the EU Labour can expect to lose dozens of seats across remain supporting London to the Liberal Democrats. Expect more progressive members to resign their membership on mass. It emphasises that the EU isn't a Party issue, it's a Politics issue. Labour may well lose Remain-supporting seats, but they'll hold and gain Leave-voting seats. Going the other way would be the same in the opposite direction. Its shows the folly of trying to impose Party politics on EU issues. And why, whatever the complaints, it's tidier to put Labour in the "Other" column when tallying up election votes as Leave/Remain. |
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Post by AdminSTB on Jul 26, 2019 19:51:59 GMT
Wrong as usual. In a Cosmos of flux nothing is constant......That is the point of terming it flux. There is nothing bitter about me old chap (not close to a pub either) I just dislike gormlessness. It seems to go something like this. C43 sets out his hard and fast rules for calculating swing which are very fair and totally non-patisan despite only ever including two parties. Others then follow these rules to the letter and calculate by election swings based on his criteria. Somehow he sees this as an affront and accuses them of being gormless trolls, abusive, stupid, moronic, nasty, duplicitous and, worst of all in his eyes, girlie. Okay, we've had a word with Carlton already, you need to rein in as well. Why has World War Three broken out because of disagreements over the way swings should be calculated? It's surreal, and it's daft. We need to agree to disagree on this. |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Jul 26, 2019 20:17:02 GMT
It seems to go something like this. C43 sets out his hard and fast rules for calculating swing which are very fair and totally non-patisan despite only ever including two parties. Others then follow these rules to the letter and calculate by election swings based on his criteria. Somehow he sees this as an affront and accuses them of being gormless trolls, abusive, stupid, moronic, nasty, duplicitous and, worst of all in his eyes, girlie. Okay, we've had a word with Carlton already, you need to rein in as well. Why has World War Three broken out because of disagreements over the way swings should be calculated? It's surreal, and it's daft. We need to agree to disagree on this. It is the Dog Days, Swan, it feels like Act 1 scene 1 of Romeo and Juliet with thumb-biting galore. |
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Post by lbarnes on Jul 26, 2019 20:44:15 GMT
It seems to go something like this. C43 sets out his hard and fast rules for calculating swing which are very fair and totally non-patisan despite only ever including two parties. Others then follow these rules to the letter and calculate by election swings based on his criteria. Somehow he sees this as an affront and accuses them of being gormless trolls, abusive, stupid, moronic, nasty, duplicitous and, worst of all in his eyes, girlie. Okay, we've had a word with Carlton already, you need to rein in as well. Why has World War Three broken out because of disagreements over the way swings should be calculated? It's surreal, and it's daft. We need to agree to disagree on this. Except that nobody is allowed to disagree with him. If they do he just has a tantrum. I'm more than happy to be disagreed with as long as it's reasoned. Happy to admit when I get things wrong too. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2019 20:51:14 GMT
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Post by carlton43 on Jul 26, 2019 20:59:20 GMT
And that is a rather intrusive and aggressive first post. Perhaps you will be in better humour after your exile in Siberia? Look forward to hearing from you next in say 7-years time? By the way raskolnikov that's Carlton's way of saying "welcome to the Forum, and I hope you enjoy posting on here". He just has his own way of saying these things. Thanks for your recent posts. I believe that is termed 'Carltonsplaining'? |
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Post by carlton43 on Jul 26, 2019 21:06:59 GMT
Labour are effectively finished as a national party of government thanks to their contradictory views on Brexit which has created the biggest constitutional crisis since the second word war . Corbyn has been worse than useless on this subject. If we do crash out of the EU Labour can expect to lose dozens of seats across remain supporting London to the Liberal Democrats. Expect more progressive members to resign their membership on mass. Says an over-excitable member of a party that was effectively finished before WW2!! These stories of Labour and the Conservatives being on the verge of destruction are much beloved by centrists and brittle journalists in the silly season. It is just that Mark lives in his own 'Silly Season' all of the time as any reader of his posts soon becomes aware. Dream on Mark. It isn't going to happen. |
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