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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2019 7:47:54 GMT
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Post by torremark on Jul 8, 2019 7:51:08 GMT
Would be great to see their leaflets if anyone can get hold of them. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2019 8:20:37 GMT
t.co/VkF46nVDHTInteresting race. Tory a former Corbynite. Threeway between Brexit, Labour and the Lib Dems
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jul 8, 2019 8:33:28 GMT
t.co/VkF46nVDHTInteresting race. Tory a former Corbynite. Threeway between Brexit, Labour and the Lib Dems A very odd write up - he has never met the Labour candidate yet claims he knows her politics, and says nothing which wouldn't suggest he has any arguments with the LD's , says he doesn't share their politics then backs them anyway. |
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Post by finsobruce on Jul 8, 2019 8:52:01 GMT
t.co/VkF46nVDHTInteresting race. Tory a former Corbynite. Threeway between Brexit, Labour and the Lib Dems A very odd write up - he has never met the Labour candidate yet claims he knows her politics, and says nothing which wouldn't suggest he has any arguments with the LD's , says he doesn't share their politics then backs them anyway. No, he says he doesn't know her politics.
It will be very interesting to see how an ex Corbynite gets on in the Tories. 
A fascinating contest in many ways.
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jul 8, 2019 9:36:03 GMT
A very odd write up - he has never met the Labour candidate yet claims he knows her politics, and says nothing which wouldn't suggest he has any arguments with the LD's , says he doesn't share their politics then backs them anyway. No, he says he doesn't know her politics.
It will be very interesting to see how an ex Corbynite gets on in the Tories. A fascinating contest in many ways.
So why does he then refer to her as a Corbynite later in the piece? I suppose its the convert thing - if you do decide to reject a strong left wing view then the appeal of the right may be more obvious than that of the centre? While I disagree with the right I respect them more than I do the centre (Perhaps also because I have an extremely low opinion of centrism) |
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Post by finsobruce on Jul 8, 2019 9:45:54 GMT
No, he says he doesn't know her politics.
It will be very interesting to see how an ex Corbynite gets on in the Tories. A fascinating contest in many ways.
So why does he then refer to her as a Corbynite later in the piece? I suppose its the convert thing - if you do decide to reject a strong left wing view then the appeal of the right may be more obvious than that of the centre? While I disagree with the right I respect them more than I do the centre (Perhaps also because I have an extremely low opinion of centrism) He doesn't - "Corbyn Labour" is surely an accurate description of a Labour party lead by someone called Corbyn?
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jul 8, 2019 9:57:45 GMT
So why does he then refer to her as a Corbynite later in the piece? I suppose its the convert thing - if you do decide to reject a strong left wing view then the appeal of the right may be more obvious than that of the centre? While I disagree with the right I respect them more than I do the centre (Perhaps also because I have an extremely low opinion of centrism) He doesn't - "Corbyn Labour" is surely an accurate description of a Labour party lead by someone called Corbyn?
How I would love to tell that to Hodge, Smeeth or Streeting!! Still, doubt they will be standing for Labour again. |
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Tony Otim
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Post by Tony Otim on Jul 8, 2019 20:31:49 GMT
GLOUCESTER BC; Barnwood (Con died)
Candidates:
BOWKETT, Ashley James (Liberal Democrat)
CLEE, Chris (Labour)
INGLEBY, Jonathan Cecil (Green)
RAMSEY, Fred (Conservative)
SHEEHY, Peter Louis (Brexit Party)
YOUNG, Matthew James (UKIP)
2016: Con 875, 681; LD 685, 594; UKIP 254; Lab 247, 223; Grn 117
Current Council: Con 21; Lab 9; LD 7; 2 vacancies
GLOUCESTER BC; Podsmead (Lab resigned)
Candidates:
BYFIELD, Michael Anthony (Green)
COLLINS, Simon (UKIP)
DAVIS, Byron Clifford (Conservative)
FIELD, Sebastian Richard (Liberal Democrat)
JEVINS, Lisa (Labour)
McCORMICK, Rob (Brexit Party)
2016: Lab 372; Con 344
Current Council: Con 21; Lab 9; LD 7; 2 vacancies
HARTLEPOOL UA; Hart (Lab sitting as Ind resigned)
Candidates:
CRADDY, Graham Patrick (For Britain)
GRIFFITHS, Ian (Independent Union)
HARRISON, Graham Lloyd (UKIP)
JOHNSON, Ann (Labour)
RITCHIE, Michael James Brackstone (Green)
2019: Ind Union 1325; Lab 647
Oct 18 by: Ind 637; Lab 582; Con 200; Grn 27
2018: Ind 778; Lab 685; Con 304
2016: Lab 568; UKIP 529; Ind 394; Con 383; Grn 70
2015: Lab 1186; UKIP 981; Con 798; PHF 787; Ind 547
2014: PHF 534; UKIP 446; Ind 435; Lab 376; Con 234
2012: Lab 713, 571, 522; Ind 532, 368, 333, 257; Con 417; PHF 266; UKIP 262
Current Council: Lab 9; Independent Union 8; Socialist Labour 4; Con 3; Putting Seaton First 3; Ind 2; For Britain 1; Veterans & People’s 1; UKIP 1; 1 vacancy
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Post by tonygreaves on Jul 14, 2019 11:44:53 GMT
The range of candidates in Hartlepool is interesting. What are "Independent Union" and "For Britain" - are they various splits from UKIP? In Gloucester are the Brexit candidates splitters from UKIP? Have they actually got a local organisation? All very weird.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jul 14, 2019 11:57:15 GMT
The range of candidates in Hartlepool is interesting. What are "Independent Union" and "For Britain" - are they various splits from UKIP? In Gloucester are the Brexit candidates splitters from UKIP? Have they actually got a local organisation? All very weird. 'Independent Union' is a local group put together just before the local elections. Their members are a mixture though several were elected for UKIP: James Brewer (Hart) Independent Bob Buchan (Fens and Rossmere) UKIP Tom Cassidy (Hart) UKIP Tim Fleming (Headland and Harbour) Independent Shane Moore (Headland and Harbour) UKIP Tony Richardson (Fens and Rossmere) PHF John Tennant (Jesmond) UKIP Barbara Ward (Headland and Harbour) Independent Union 'For Britain' is Ann Marie Waters' party. |
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Post by andrew111 on Jul 14, 2019 23:10:40 GMT
No, he says he doesn't know her politics.
It will be very interesting to see how an ex Corbynite gets on in the Tories. A fascinating contest in many ways.
So why does he then refer to her as a Corbynite later in the piece? I suppose its the convert thing - if you do decide to reject a strong left wing view then the appeal of the right may be more obvious than that of the centre? While I disagree with the right I respect them more than I do the centre (Perhaps also because I have an extremely low opinion of centrism) Perhaps it shows that the politicsl spectrum is more of a circle than a line? In this case though "confused localist" seems a more likely explanation |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jul 14, 2019 23:23:23 GMT
Not in the least. I largely disagree with the right but at least their beliefs appear to have some coherence, something which reflects a distinct way of looking at the world. Centrism doesn't do that for me.
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Jul 15, 2019 9:35:22 GMT
Perhaps it shows that the politicsl spectrum is more of a circle than a line? In this case though "confused localist" seems a more likely explanation I personally agree that the political spectrum is circular, its why many far left and far right views are often indistinguishable, which is why people easily move between the two.It is also why, in my opinion, those who on either extreme prefer the other in power if they can't be, rather than someone of a so called 'central' political view. I don't think it is *that* common tbh. There is also, increasingly, such a thing as "militant" centrism. Also some intriguing survey evidence that "hard centrists" are more impatient of democratic norms than the supposed "extremists" of either left or right. |
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polupolu
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Post by polupolu on Jul 15, 2019 9:46:15 GMT
Politics isn't really a circle or a line but rather multi-dimensional. "Economic Left-Right", "Authoritarian-AntiAuthoritarian" and "Collectivist-Individualist" have been the major dimensions in the past but there are other dimensions and they are growing in importance if anything (and the "Economic Left-Right" axis seems to be less important than it used to be as far as I can see - which is why people do sometimes swap on this scale.
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Post by finsobruce on Jul 15, 2019 10:10:33 GMT
I personally agree that the political spectrum is circular, its why many far left and far right views are often indistinguishable, which is why people easily move between the two.It is also why, in my opinion, those who on either extreme prefer the other in power if they can't be, rather than someone of a so called 'central' political view. I don't think it is *that* common tbh. There is also, increasingly, such a thing as "militant" centrism. Also some intriguing survey evidence that "hard centrists" are more impatient of democratic norms than the supposed "extremists" of either left or right. Really quite a lot of people suddenly become impatient of democratic norms when things don't appear to be going their way.
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Post by No Offence Alan on Jul 15, 2019 10:16:22 GMT
I don't think it is *that* common tbh.There is also, increasingly, such a thing as "militant" centrism. Also some intriguing survey evidence that "hard centrists" are more impatient of democratic norms than the supposed "extremists" of either left or right. Really quite a lot of people suddenly become impatient of democratic norms when things don't appear to be going their way.
The FN in France drew a lot of support from former Communist voters. |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jul 15, 2019 14:42:21 GMT
Really quite a lot of people suddenly become impatient of democratic norms when things don't appear to be going their way.
The FN in France drew a lot of support from former Communist voters. True, but then French politics is quite distinctive - the French Communists held strongly French nationalist and anti-regionalist views as part of their historic approach, and the FN support protectionism which has also been traditionally part of the Communist approach. That doesn't mean the rest of their party programme is the same, and to an extent the FN picked up votes in areas which used to have Communist strength, rather than voters switching stright to the FN from the Communists, largely associated with post-industrial decline. Other FN strongholds are traditional right wing areas such as parts of rural Alsace and Provence |
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Post by pepperminttea on Jul 15, 2019 14:47:22 GMT
Politics isn't really a circle or a line but rather multi-dimensional. "Economic Left-Right", "Authoritarian-AntiAuthoritarian" and "Collectivist-Individualist" have been the major dimensions in the past but there are other dimensions and they are growing in importance if anything (and the "Economic Left-Right" axis seems to be less important than it used to be as far as I can see - which is why people do sometimes swap on this scale. I agree. Politics seems to becoming more about 'values' (I doubt whether this will be a good thing though as the 'values' based political situation in the USA is utterly toxic). The Brexit Party for example has a vast array of people with vastly varying views on economics from Ann Widdecombe to Claire Fox, similarly the Lib Dems are picking up people from both the centre-left and centre-right who have very different views on economic policy but share similar 'values'/'world view'. Proportional Representation is thus probably the way to go as it will allow space for multiple parties reflecting the whole spectrum of political opinions as opposed to now where in many cases people feel compelled to vote for the 'least bad' option. |
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Post by tonygreaves on Jul 17, 2019 20:26:15 GMT
I think it will take some time to see how the parties pan out and their supporters. I don't think we are anywhere near the end of the fragmentation and shifting boundaries of the parties.
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