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Post by owainsutton on Sept 1, 2019 18:44:26 GMT
What's the limit? The same as £100k for a Westminster one?
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Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
Posts: 9,730
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Post by Chris from Brum on Sept 1, 2019 19:17:43 GMT
I will be fascinated to see the expense returns on this. I suspect the SNP spent more on this than they did for the entire EU referendum. I wonder if Nicky's visits will show up, or be hidden as First Minister business. |
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Sept 1, 2019 19:48:37 GMT
What's the limit? The same as £100k for a Westminster one? Yes. 16,000 electors. That’s a lot of stamps! |
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Post by owainsutton on Sept 1, 2019 20:31:53 GMT
What's the limit? The same as £100k for a Westminster one? Yes. 16,000 electors. That’s a lot of stamps! How much of it was travel, and how much was unsolicited material, is going to be very interesting. |
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Sept 2, 2019 5:47:02 GMT
Just over six quid per elector, per candidate. Almost as much as the Lib Dems spent in Hallam in 2015.
It is surprising that there hasn't been an attempt to raise the limit for island seats based on travel.
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,774 
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Post by john07 on Sept 2, 2019 11:12:45 GMT
Just over six quid per elector, per candidate. Almost as much as the Lib Dems spent in Hallam in 2015. It is surprising that there hasn't been an attempt to raise the limit for island seats based on travel. All those rail trips via Bergen will not come cheap. |
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cogload
Lib Dem
I jumped in the river and what did I see...
Posts: 9,140
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Post by cogload on Sept 7, 2019 16:01:08 GMT
Some thoughts on this from a distance. Firstly a bit of context - although on paper hugely safe for the LD's the SNP were not far away in the Euros and Carmichael certainly lost in Shetland in 2015 (Orkney saved him).
The SNP did think they were on the verge of winning this with about a week to go. There were the none too subtle briefings of the press and the Islands were swamped with activists by the score. I assume any MSP/MP who did not visit was a threatened with deselection, even Mr Murrell paid two visits although unkind rumour had him on an early flight out on polling day.
For those who are interested look at #tideisturning on twitter for a feel as to how the SNP thought their campaign was going. I can understand this, although lampposts don't vote there was SNP street paraphernalia attached to every single one from Sumburgh to Lerwick and on occasions you couldn't wait for a ferry without stumbling over an activist with as clipboard.
The SNP candidate (Tom Wills) himself ran an energetic campaign and had the Yoof vote pushing him, he also did not mention independence at all in his literature and this may have caught up with him - how an independent Scotland in the EU does not avoid the CFP (I will fight for Shetlands voice in negotiations) didn't cut it. He also played cleverly on the "if I am crap vote me out in 18mths line" and of course the SNP in a LD dominated constituency are change (although the list MSP is nowhere to be seen). Wills is of part of the Shetland mafia in that in his father is a political Labour turned SNP animal (I spotted Wills snr attaching the aforesaid SNP signage to a streetlight). My father has a picture of Wills snr giving it large on the dance floor at RAF Saxavord way back - but that name is also a hindrance as Papa is very divisive and in an island community that is not good.
The LD candidate (Wishart) was selected and she is pretty well known, a current SIC councillor and a LD activist and caseworker for Tavish Scott. Following him was going to be a difficult act in that the Scott family have a feudal vote as well as a personal vote being big landowners across the Islands and John Scott (Tavish's dad) was Lord Lieutenant at one stage. However she had a quiet start in terms of social media and compared to the yoofull Wills was more on the "staid end". But the elderly (we voted for Grimond) vote stayed loyal and this gave her the cushion. This may cause problems in the longer run but she now has a chance to build her profile and the first question she asked at HR was on the cause which Wills and the SNP ran on - you said you would cut ferry fates so when will they be cut? - weirdly the answer was a lot of fluff (maybe around the budget).
I got the sense that there was a big squeeze on by the LD's in the final week which was confirmed by the potential fly in the ointment Ryan Thomson. He was the Indy candidate, Baltasound boy and SIC cllr..so that sewed the 3 Northern Isles up (Unst, Fetlar, Yell). He ran on the platform of "nobody in Edinburgh will tell me how to vote" and it did resonate. He had convinced himself it was close and in an interview on election night said his vote had been squeezed and people voted tactically (semi confirmed by conversation) to stop Wills. The LD campaign did step up a gear in the final week and he did get caught. He is considering having another pop at the seat in 18mths.
It was in the words of one LD activist "intense". And the SNP did throw the kitchen sink at this - the number of activists, social media presence (which was sharp) plus the traditional media (wraparounds in the Shetland Times every week etc) it was very in your face. The aggression was noted.
Who though daubed "SNP" on the side of the war memorial in Lerwick?
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piperdave
SNP
Dalkeith; Midlothian/North & Musselburgh
Posts: 911
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Post by piperdave on Sept 8, 2019 20:49:15 GMT
For many years the result from Orkney & Shetland was usually the last to be declared at a GE - 1964 and 1966 come to mind when Jo Grimond was the Liberal leader and local MP.On at least one of those elections the declaration did not occur until Saturday! I recall that in 1970 the SNP gain of the Western Isles was the final result. For some reason, both constituencies are now able to declare much earlier. My guess is that they used to have to operate with one count area, but now are permitted to be split across two different counts? That question was looked into a number of years ago and it didn't seem like it could comply with the Parliamentary Election Rules. The way the Rules are written implies at least a single count centre. I'm fairly sure the boxes were flown from Shetland to Orkney for the 2010 GE. Presumably having few, if any, polling stations on outlying islands makes the logistics much easier than it would have been in Grimond's day. |
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johnloony
Conservative
Posts: 24,533
Member is Online
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Post by johnloony on Sept 9, 2019 0:01:44 GMT
My guess is that they used to have to operate with one count area, but now are permitted to be split across two different counts? That question was looked into a number of years ago and it didn't seem like it could comply with the Parliamentary Election Rules. The way the Rules are written implies at least a single count centre. I'm fairly sure the boxes were flown from Shetland to Orkney for the 2010 GE. Presumably having few, if any, polling stations on outlying islands makes the logistics much easier than it would have been in Grimond's day. And equally, I presume that the boxes are flown from the small islands in Shetland to Lerwick, and then all flown together from Lerwick to Orkney, rather than individually from the islands. |
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iain
Lib Dem
Posts: 11,426
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Post by iain on Oct 15, 2019 14:18:48 GMT
www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2019/10/14/lib-dems-and-snp-spent-160000-on-by-election-expenses'The bulk of the £163,492 spent by the two parties came from the SNP, which had expenses approaching the £100,000 limit for a by-election (£98,958.48). This compares to the Lib Dems, who spent £64,533.95 running their campaign, which saw their candidate Beatrice Wishart returned as MSP after the August vote.' 'Labour spent £4,088.07, while the Conservatives’ expenses were more than four times this at £18,262.81. Ukip’s expenses totalled £1,985.29 and the Scottish Greens’ campaign cost £1,441.77.'
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Post by bjornhattan on Oct 15, 2019 17:17:13 GMT
www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2019/10/14/lib-dems-and-snp-spent-160000-on-by-election-expenses'The bulk of the £163,492 spent by the two parties came from the SNP, which had expenses approaching the £100,000 limit for a by-election (£98,958.48). This compares to the Lib Dems, who spent £64,533.95 running their campaign, which saw their candidate Beatrice Wishart returned as MSP after the August vote.' 'Labour spent £4,088.07, while the Conservatives’ expenses were more than four times this at £18,262.81. Ukip’s expenses totalled £1,985.29 and the Scottish Greens’ campaign cost £1,441.77.' And incredibly, Ryan Thomson, who came third, spent just £82.04! |
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Post by markgoodair on Oct 16, 2019 8:17:37 GMT
Spending per vote
Lib Dem £11.40
SNP £25.89
Lab £26.90
Con £42.97
Greens £3.39
UKIP £33.09
Ryan Thomson a mere 6p per vote!
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Post by yellowperil on Oct 16, 2019 8:31:49 GMT
Spending per vote Lib Dem £11.40 SNP £25.89 Lab £26.90 Con £42.97 Greens £3.39 UKIP £33.09 Ryan Thomson a mere 6p per vote! I think this shows the weakness of the"spending per vote" approach. What matters in the end is" elected" or "not elected". Had the Tory been elected, say, the money would have been money well spent (from their point of view, I hasten to add)- given their actual performance , it looks like reckless profilgacy- actually more typical of Conservative spending than their image makers would like to admit. If you compare the LibDem spending with the Greens, say, it is the difference between the spending required to win and that required to make a respectable-ish* showing. * well, ahead of Labour, anyway. |
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cogload
Lib Dem
I jumped in the river and what did I see...
Posts: 9,140
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Post by cogload on Oct 16, 2019 11:20:11 GMT
The SNP spent more on one by election than they did the entire EU referendum.
Well my gaster is flabbered.
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