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Post by owainsutton on Aug 30, 2019 10:04:44 GMT
This cropped up somewhere far back in this thread: even when postal voting was highly restricted, that a voter would otherwise be required to travel across open water was a reason to be entitled to one. So it's not that there's an agreement to vote by post, but that there's no obligation to provide polling stations on all islands. However, I still wonder what provisions are in place if an election takes place in the depths of winter, when the Foula ferry (and therefore its postal service) can be prevented from operating for weeks at a time. I think it’s the opening montage of the BBC’s February 1974 election programme that says a Royal Navy helicopter was to fly the ballot boxes from the Scilly Isles to mainland Cornwall, but had been grounded until the Friday morning; might Orkney and Shetland use similar transportation in inclement weather? That would make sense as a possible solution in the scenario I'm thinking of. It wouldn't be ballot boxes in this case, anyway, just a mailbag, and they'd only need to collect it at some point in the run-up to polling day. |
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Post by justin124 on Aug 30, 2019 10:30:08 GMT
For many years the result from Orkney & Shetland was usually the last to be declared at a GE - 1964 and 1966 come to mind when Jo Grimond was the Liberal leader and local MP.On at least one of those elections the declaration did not occur until Saturday! I recall that in 1970 the SNP gain of the Western Isles was the final result. For some reason, both constituencies are now able to declare much earlier.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Aug 30, 2019 10:36:35 GMT
Argyll always used to be the last seat to declare - typically coming in only on Saturday afternoon.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,889
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Post by The Bishop on Aug 30, 2019 10:47:31 GMT
For many years the result from Orkney & Shetland was usually the last to be declared at a GE - 1964 and 1966 come to mind when Jo Grimond was the Liberal leader and local MP.On at least one of those elections the declaration did not occur until Saturday! I recall that in 1970 the SNP gain of the Western Isles was the final result. For some reason, both constituencies are now able to declare much earlier. In contrast, Labour's gain of the Western Isles in 1987 was one of the earliest results announced that night. |
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timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
Posts: 11,823 
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Post by timmullen1 on Aug 30, 2019 10:55:11 GMT
For many years the result from Orkney & Shetland was usually the last to be declared at a GE - 1964 and 1966 come to mind when Jo Grimond was the Liberal leader and local MP.On at least one of those elections the declaration did not occur until Saturday! I recall that in 1970 the SNP gain of the Western Isles was the final result. For some reason, both constituencies are now able to declare much earlier. In contrast, Labour's gain of the Western Isles in 1987 was one of the earliest results announced that night. Is there not still a thing where Western Isles don’t count on a Friday for religious reasons; wasn’t the Scottish Euro result in June delayed until Saturday lunchtime because they had to wait for their numbers? |
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Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,892
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Post by Tony Otim on Aug 30, 2019 10:56:06 GMT
Has there ever been a parliamentary election/by-election where both the Tories and Labour lose their deposit, as I think they have done here? A quick google suggests that there are deposits for MSP elections, might be wrong at this time of night. good result for the Lib Dems I'd say - there were suggestions it could be a lot tighter than that. Orkney, 2016. 1.3% must surely be close to Labour's worst ever vote in a parliamentary election... |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,889
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Post by The Bishop on Aug 30, 2019 10:56:51 GMT
Isn't that rather not doing any election stuff on a *Sunday*? Which of course wouldn't normally be relevant to GEs.
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cogload
Lib Dem
I jumped in the river and what did I see...
Posts: 9,140
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Post by cogload on Aug 30, 2019 11:09:55 GMT
This is a fascinating document. Given the quite high postal votes, I wonder whether the rather low percentages for votes by person in some of the more difficult to reach places and some of the outer isles means that they have above average postal votes? As I understand things, residents of the outlying islands in Shetland and other areas all agree to vote by post, so the council doesn't have to provide polling stations on tiny islands and the number of ballot boxes which need to be brought to the count is minimised. It took only two hours from the close of poll to get the last ballot box in, which is quite good for such a long distance. Google gives the travel time between Haroldswick, Unst to Lerwick as two and a half hours but I don't imagine it has good lighting after dark. The main road to the Northern Isles has little in the way of street lighting but an awful lot of bends and sheep have a habit of chewing the cud; peacefully sitting and watching the world go past watching the cars weave past. The polling station for Fetlar is at Sellafirth on Yell.. |
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Post by owainsutton on Aug 30, 2019 11:12:04 GMT
For many years the result from Orkney & Shetland was usually the last to be declared at a GE - 1964 and 1966 come to mind when Jo Grimond was the Liberal leader and local MP.On at least one of those elections the declaration did not occur until Saturday! I recall that in 1970 the SNP gain of the Western Isles was the final result. For some reason, both constituencies are now able to declare much earlier. My guess is that they used to have to operate with one count area, but now are permitted to be split across two different counts? |
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Post by owainsutton on Aug 30, 2019 11:14:17 GMT
As for Haroldswick to Lerwick, I'm sure the police know the road very well - and possibly ferries are held for them to arrive, shortening the time.
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cogload
Lib Dem
I jumped in the river and what did I see...
Posts: 9,140
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Post by cogload on Aug 30, 2019 11:18:26 GMT
As for Haroldswick to Lerwick, I'm sure the police know the road very well - and possibly ferries are held for them to arrive, shortening the time. Or there is a ferry waiting for them. |
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Post by carlton43 on Aug 30, 2019 11:36:31 GMT
SIBC is 'broadcasting' a series of unremarkable current pop songs with occasional interruptions for station identification. Don't know if it will interrupt them when the declaraion comes but just in case: www.sibc.co.ukCommunity radio. Much better than poll tax radio Rubbish! As in 'Community Radio' is rubbish. And the BBC is not 'Poll Tax' radio. And in BBC Radio being FREE at the point of reception and for all listeners. The underlying context of your assertion is an outright lie and you know that it is and still make it. |
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Post by timrollpickering on Aug 30, 2019 11:36:37 GMT
In contrast, Labour's gain of the Western Isles in 1987 was one of the earliest results announced that night. Is there not still a thing where Western Isles don’t count on a Friday for religious reasons; wasn’t the Scottish Euro result in June delayed until Saturday lunchtime because they had to wait for their numbers? It's actually Sunday, with them not counting until Monday. This popped every five years with the European elections, often irritating politicians in the rest of Scotland because the results were usually clear (WI being such a small electorate) but couldn't be officially announced on the night. Lately Scottish Twitter has got upset as well. However a Thursday polling day doesn't present problems. It seems they now use a helicopter to pick up all the ballot boxes in time. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Aug 30, 2019 11:37:32 GMT
Ryan's vote would have come from the Northern Isles of Unst and Yell (he is a Baltasound lad) so that is a big chunk of ex Scott voters who moved. Wills is based in Lerwick so I would imagine the northen Lerwick boxes would have come in for him whilst Wishart would have won the south. Talk at the count was that the town was evenly split. The Scott family are based on Bressay so if previous voting patterns are followed that would have supplied a decent chunk for the LD's. Crikey - is the vote likely to have been that (for want of a better word) parochial? I know the area where candidates are based can have an impact, but that much? Am I just being an out of touch city dweller here? I would have thought any constituency made up entirely of islands is likely to be pretty "parochial". And I always felt a strong independent could be as significant to the outcome as the SNP. (And 47% in a ten-way split is very unlikely to lose ...  ) |
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fourringcircus
Forum Regular
Toryism kills the humane spirit
Posts: 1,600
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Post by fourringcircus on Aug 30, 2019 11:38:23 GMT
So what are the facts in Shetland then, not the hyperbole, or the wishes of posters, but the actual facts? A huge swing to the SNP in a by election after 12 years of leading in Holyrood.
Lib-Dems down nearly 20% which is not a good sign for their new leader.
Tories and Labour amassing less than 5% between them.
Spin things as you might, but I don't see anything to worry about here for the SNP. |
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Post by timrollpickering on Aug 30, 2019 11:42:01 GMT
As I understand things, residents of the outlying islands in Shetland and other areas all agree to vote by post, so the council doesn't have to provide polling stations on tiny islands and the number of ballot boxes which need to be brought to the count is minimised. It took only two hours from the close of poll to get the last ballot box in, which is quite good for such a long distance. Google gives the travel time between Haroldswick, Unst to Lerwick as two and a half hours but I don't imagine it has good lighting after dark. Thanks. More or less exactly as I surmised. However there still seems to be polling stations on a lot of those remote places and the vote by person figures are only a bit lower than elsewhere, so they must still have to get ballot boxes from the outer islands back to Lerwick. I think they do pretty well to get a result out as quickly as they do. This cropped up somewhere far back in this thread: even when postal voting was highly restricted, that a voter would otherwise be required to travel across open water was a reason to be entitled to one. So it's not that there's an agreement to vote by post, but that there's no obligation to provide polling stations on all islands. As discussed upthread there are polling stations for some of the smaller islands that aren't actually on the islands themselves. Presumably these are sharing a polling place with a neighbouring larger island. Some islanders may well have a regular day ferry trip that takes them past the designated polling place, perhaps others make a special occasion of it. |
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cogload
Lib Dem
I jumped in the river and what did I see...
Posts: 9,140
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Post by cogload on Aug 30, 2019 11:44:15 GMT
So what are the facts in Shetland then, not the hyperbole, or the wishes of posters, but the actual facts? A huge swing to the SNP in a by election after 12 years of leading in Holyrood.
Lib-Dems down nearly 20% which is not a good sign for their new leader.
Tories and Labour amassing less than 5% between them.
Spin things as you might, but I don't see anything to worry about here for the SNP. Lol. |
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Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
Posts: 9,730
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Post by Chris from Brum on Aug 30, 2019 11:48:03 GMT
So what are the facts in Shetland then, not the hyperbole, or the wishes of posters, but the actual facts? A huge swing to the SNP in a by election after 12 years of leading in Holyrood. You can throw the kitchen sink at it once in a while, but that option's not quite as available at a GE/Holyrood election. Nicky probably won't bother coming here again. But perhaps you could send Mr Swinney more often, he's quite a boost - for other parties 
Lib-Dems down nearly 20% which is not a good sign for their new leader. As much to do with the personal vote of the outgoing MSP as anything. The new lady now has a chance to develop a personal vote of her own, and even without it managed nearly half of the votes.
Tories and Labour amassing less than 5% between them. That's becoming normal for the Northern Isles.
Spin things as you might, but I don't see anything to worry about here for the SNP.
You spin faster than my washing machine, but frankly this was the SNP's best shot *ever* here, and you just couldn't do it  |
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Post by carlton43 on Aug 30, 2019 11:52:56 GMT
Rubbish! As in 'Community Radio' is rubbish. And the BBC is not 'Poll Tax' radio. And in BBC Radio being FREE at the point of reception and for all listeners. The underlying context of your assertion is an outright lie and you know that it is and still make it. well the Truce didn't last long. BBC Radio is paid for by a tax on any person who wishes to watch TV, regardless of who produces it and regardless of their ability to pay. My radio show tonight on Mearns FM, 9 till Midnight, is paid for by Brickfield Motors and Forfar Bathrooms and my annual subs. Shout out to the cousins at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIBC who are not actually community radio, but who are a husband and wife team running a supposedly commercial station. What truce? On what subject? I agree with you on many things but certainly not on Free movement The merits of mass immigration The sale of council houses The utility of gypsies The merits of the BBC The FACT that BBC Radio is free Most of your views on culture Your 'taste' in music Being prepared to accept a form of BRINO But in our respective guts we have very similar basic conservative views and I honour you for that. |
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Post by justin124 on Aug 30, 2019 12:21:30 GMT
For many years the result from Orkney & Shetland was usually the last to be declared at a GE - 1964 and 1966 come to mind when Jo Grimond was the Liberal leader and local MP.On at least one of those elections the declaration did not occur until Saturday! I recall that in 1970 the SNP gain of the Western Isles was the final result. For some reason, both constituencies are now able to declare much earlier. My guess is that they used to have to operate with one count area, but now are permitted to be split across two different counts? I don't think so! |
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