Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2012 19:21:44 GMT
Have to admit, if Thatcher defected to us I'd feel pretty cold... well as you know she was never as anti european as painted. In fact she signed the biggest treaty of all to open it all up. For this to mean anything it would need reputable tory names and not the 'usual suspects' |
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Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,905
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Post by Tony Otim on Apr 15, 2012 19:24:26 GMT
Have to admit, if Thatcher defected to us I'd feel pretty cold... Surely, she would expect you all to defect to her  |
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Post by iainbhx on Apr 15, 2012 19:34:07 GMT
Your second statement is....not really that relevant.....and in any case you've fallen over yourself. Clegg could never be in the same party as Cameron, full stop. Why exactly could two socially liberal, fiscally conservative politicians with a good working relationship not be in the same party? I can't see Cameron as a Lib Dem, and Clegg will always define as a Lib Dem even in the unlikely event of your party repeating its 1930s trajectory, but the fact that they can't be together in a party that currently exists doesn't mean that they couldn't be in the same party if a suitable party existed. Their political prescriptions, after all, do seem to be in relative homogeneity with each other. They would both fit into what's left of the FDP in Germany. Neither would fit into what is likely to be the only "liberal" party in Germany after the 2013 Bundestag elections - Die Piraten. I don't think Cameron would be comfy in the Union parties. (I can't even use the Fast Drei Prozent joke any more) |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2012 8:04:26 GMT
{{Citation needed}}
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Post by anthony on Apr 16, 2012 8:09:50 GMT
thing is Dok would he care if any of the radical 2010 intake ? lets face it the likes of clegg could be in the same party as Cameron if you take away their extreme RW anti EU people The thing is Ian, what does Cameron actually believe in? The only thing I know about his beliefs with any certainty is that he's pretty anti-EU (the only real policy/promise during the leadership campaign, the frankly odd decision, in terms of influence, to pull out of the mainstream centre right in the EP). So, if you take away the Tories' "anti EU people" you're probably taking Cameron . . . |
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Post by timrollpickering on Apr 16, 2012 8:59:41 GMT
It's been posted here therefore it's being talked about. Anyone can talk about anything. Three Liberal Democrats are also being talked about as possibles for UKIP.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2012 9:02:54 GMT
Hehe
The stuff I've just picked up/made up about the Green Party defections! A cabinet minister!!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2012 9:37:38 GMT
thing is Dok would he care if any of the radical 2010 intake ? lets face it the likes of clegg could be in the same party as Cameron if you take away their extreme RW anti EU people The thing is Ian, what does Cameron actually believe in? The only thing I know about his beliefs with any certainty is that he's pretty anti-EU (the only real policy/promise during the leadership campaign, the frankly odd decision, in terms of influence, to pull out of the mainstream centre right in the EP). So, if you take away the Tories' "anti EU people" you're probably taking Cameron . . . not sure he is that anti, he used that as a way of beating Davis. I have to say I think Cameron would swing with whichever way he sees as getting the most votes. The veto thing being a prime cause of this. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2012 9:38:10 GMT
Hehe The stuff I've just picked up/made up about the Green Party defections! A cabinet minister!! still silly season then ? |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2012 9:46:01 GMT
Hehe The stuff I've just picked up/made up about the Green Party defections! A cabinet minister!! still silly season then ? That was the joke, Ian  |
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Post by anthony on Apr 16, 2012 10:25:19 GMT
not sure he is that anti, he used that as a way of beating Davis. I have to say I think Cameron would swing with whichever way he sees as getting the most votes. I think there's probably a certain amount of truth to this, but this is why he's likely to stick with the antis . . . |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2012 10:40:08 GMT
not sure he is that anti, he used that as a way of beating Davis. I have to say I think Cameron would swing with whichever way he sees as getting the most votes. I think there's probably a certain amount of truth to this, but this is why he's likely to stick with the antis . . . If he was that anti he would have allowed a vote on a possible new treaty knowing it would become a vote on the EU. he blocked it Did he do so because some donors would not want it or Did he do so because he likes the EU to some extent |
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Post by timrollpickering on Apr 16, 2012 11:06:40 GMT
The thing is Ian, what does Cameron actually believe in? The only thing I know about his beliefs with any certainty is that he's pretty anti-EU (the only real policy/promise during the leadership campaign, the frankly odd decision, in terms of influence, to pull out of the mainstream centre right in the EP). So, if you take away the Tories' "anti EU people" you're probably taking Cameron . . . not sure he is that anti, he used that as a way of beating Davis. I have to say I think Cameron would swing with whichever way he sees as getting the most votes. The veto thing being a prime cause of this. To be honest when Cameron made that promise it was in answer to a question on something very few people outside the EP really cared about - I remember some staunch UK-based right-wingers slapping down people from Brussels raising it as obsessives, only to later declare that EPP membership had swung their votes. Cameron gave a straightforward answer on the issue like so many others that only actually excite a few - I'm sure in his career he's answered questions on such weighty matters as the phasing of traffic lights at particular junctions without the order of movement being written up as a grand principle. The answer given really said more about the candidate than the policy - would he take a decision or would he pass the buck, like David Davis? - and was really about a seemingly historic anomaly rather than the key litmus test of Euroscepticism in the party (which at the time, bizarrely, was giving the whip back to Roger Helmer!). When Cameron's leadership manifesto was still available online during the EPP row I took a look and couldn't find the pledge, confirming to me that this was not something the candidate saw as a big matter, but elements in the party expected otherwise. It's also forgotten that between the first and second ballot when Clarke was knocked out & had supporters up for grabs, it was the David Davis camp who was playing the Europe card, basically trying to use Cameron & Fox's position on EPP membership to sell their man as the "most pro-European" of the remaining candidates. I don't think this actually attracted many (although the sheer opportunism may have added to the sinking ship). |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2012 12:03:01 GMT
come on Pimp no need for that.
If we lost the likes of Frank Field to UKIP I would be delighted.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2012 12:22:55 GMT
I like you all !!
OK I picked Frank Field not because of any rumour but because he is such an obvious candidate, not sure on the other one at all, some who is very anti EU and also agrees wti hte other aspect of UKIP, can not think of one
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,940
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Post by The Bishop on Apr 16, 2012 12:42:15 GMT
Kate Hoey is pretty obvious - her anti-Europeanism is of long standing. If he was a bit younger, Austin Mitchell would come into the frame too.......... Not that I seriously expect any such defections |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2012 13:20:45 GMT
come on Pimp no need for that. If we lost the likes of Frank Field to UKIP I would be delighted. so the rumours are not limited just to ukip circles already then? i find Trdient's holier than thou atitude a fkng irritance, and his lofty assumptions are very misplaced. Indeed, I totally fail to understand why you have -35 karma and he is positive, as he contributes little but dogmatic platitudes whilst you raise interesting questions... Oh come on Pimp, you don't think Frank Field defection rumours are only coming out now? 'Not confined to UKIP circles, then?". No, not since the 12th of forever, and often connected to Kate Hoey. All this is so much lint and cobwebs though, as the lilkihood of a defection to UKIP from any current party in the Commons is nil, nada, nowt. I will gladly give up my account and never post again if proven wrong. It is not going to happen, FACT. |
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Post by marksenior on Apr 16, 2012 13:49:24 GMT
I have £ 25 to wager that no MP of any party will defect to UKIP before 31/12/2012 . Time for Pimp to put up or shut up .
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Apr 16, 2012 14:09:57 GMT
I don't think many of us would spread rumours about a Field defection. As has been pointed out up thread, if the rumour gets out it has to be denied. If the old bastard is finally going to bugger off, I do not want to be responsible for changing his mind.
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Post by johnloony on Apr 17, 2012 3:52:31 GMT
Kate Hoey is pretty obvious - her anti-Europeanism is of long standing. If she is anti-European, why would she want to join UKIP? UKIP is a pro-European party. |
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