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Post by finsobruce on Oct 30, 2018 21:05:02 GMT
Best advice I've had all day.  |
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Post by curiousliberal on Oct 31, 2018 10:00:56 GMT
Law and order is probably necessary before liberal democratic values can make any progress. You have to get crime under control first because people haven't got time for liberal values if they're worried about what might happen when they walk down the street or even in their own homes. It's a good thing Bolsonaro didn't advocate for extrajudicial killings and torture, then. Edit: I was probably reading this more harshly than I should have (i.e. as a reluctant endorsement). Sorry. I agree law and order needs to be restored, but this can only be done hand-in-hand with liberal democratic values: strip away people's basic rights, and a fair few amongst the remaining ones who respect it will learn to resist a jack-booted law enforcement. Most might be cowed in a given environment, but enough would fight back to worsen the situation, I think. Simply imposing martial law in crime-riddled areas hasn't really worked wonders for Brazil so far, and the Duterte strategy led to months-long, full-scale war (thankfully the Moro conflict's ended, but levels of violence, AFAIK, are still up on what they were before his presidency). |
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mboy
Liberal
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Post by mboy on Oct 31, 2018 10:47:15 GMT
Cracking down on lawless bandits with an iron fist can sometimes work, but Bolsonaro will fail because the fundamantal problem is that Brazil is awash with guns - and he proposes to make it even *easier* to get guns. Brazil needs disarming, not hyper-arming. That’s the main reason he will fail, not because of issues of legal accountability.
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The Bishop
Labour
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Post by The Bishop on Oct 31, 2018 11:13:30 GMT
Cracking down on lawless bandits with an iron fist can sometimes work, but Bolsonaro will fail because the fundamantal problem is that Brazil is awash with guns - and he proposes to make it even *easier* to get guns. Brazil needs disarming, not hyper-arming. That’s the main reason he will fail, not because of issues of legal accountability. This all sounds strangely familiar, doesn't it...... |
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Post by johnloony on Oct 31, 2018 13:00:27 GMT
Law and order is probably necessary before liberal democratic values can make any progress. You have to get crime under control first because people haven't got time for liberal values if they're worried about what might happen when they walk down the street or even in their own homes. One of the underlying themes of Thatcherism, which is clear from her biography, is the rule of law according to due process. This attitude came from her experience as a barrister. I think that the reforms in trade union legislation in the 1980s were, in Mrs Thatcher's mind, motivated by the legalistic desire to protect the terms of a contract of employment between a worker and employee, rather than the more political desire to bash the unions directly. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 1, 2018 13:47:38 GMT
Ciro Gomes has blamed the PT for the whole situation and has claimed that he will try and lead an opposition to Bolsonaro that excludes them.
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Post by finsobruce on Nov 1, 2018 13:50:30 GMT
Ciro Gomes has blamed the PT for the whole situation and has claimed that he will try and lead an opposition to Bolsonaro that excludes them. who he? |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 1, 2018 13:56:07 GMT
Ciro Gomes has blamed the PT for the whole situation and has claimed that he will try and lead an opposition to Bolsonaro that excludes them. who he? He's the chap who attacked the PT from the Left in the presidential campaign, and then refused to endorse them against Bolsonaro. He was a minister under Lula and then fell out with him. |
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Sibboleth
Labour
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Post by Sibboleth on Nov 1, 2018 13:56:40 GMT
Ciro Gomes has blamed the PT for the whole situation and has claimed that he will try and lead an opposition to Bolsonaro that excludes them. who he? Guy that game third in the first round. Longterm fixture of political life - old fashioned left populist gadfly in the post-Vargas tradition. |
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Sibboleth
Labour
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Post by Sibboleth on Nov 1, 2018 13:57:24 GMT
He's the chap who attacked the PT from the Left in the presidential campaign, and then refused to endorse them against Bolsonaro. He was a minister under Lula and then fell out with him. Actually he did endorse Haddad, but refused to lift a finger other than to mark his ballot. His vote in the North East swung uniformly behind Haddad, his urban vote elsewhere... eh... not so much. |
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
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Post by Sibboleth on Nov 1, 2018 13:57:42 GMT
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 1, 2018 13:59:10 GMT
He's the chap who attacked the PT from the Left in the presidential campaign, and then refused to endorse them against Bolsonaro. He was a minister under Lula and then fell out with him. Actually he did endorse Haddad, but refused to lift a finger other than to mark his ballot. Sorry, you are correct- I didn't notice that. I last spotted his cryptic denunciation of Bolsonaro that implied one should vote against him but didn't explicitly say to vote for Haddad. |
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Post by yellowperil on Nov 1, 2018 14:22:10 GMT
Sorry but I don't think this map works half as well as yours usually, do, because I am finding it difficult to see the difference between two very dark and samey colours at the top end, and an awful lot of the country is pretty extreme one way or the other, or is that the point you want to make? I know which states are very dark red and which are very dark brown, but the point of the map surely is to convey that to the eye, and there I'm struggling to actually see it. |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Nov 1, 2018 14:27:28 GMT
Sorry but I don't think this map works half as well as yours usually, do, because I am finding it difficult to see the difference between two very dark and samey colours at the top end, and an awful lot of the country is pretty extreme one way or the other, or is that the point you want to make? I know which states are very dark red and which are very dark brown, but the point of the map surely is to convey that to the eye, and there I'm struggling to actually see it. Agree on the colours, but the actual geographical split is pretty striking. |
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carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on Nov 1, 2018 14:36:57 GMT
Ciro Gomes has blamed the PT for the whole situation and has claimed that he will try and lead an opposition to Bolsonaro that excludes them. who he? I love 30s, 40s, 50s dialogue. Do use use the newish channel 'Talking Pictures'? It has a wealth of old stuff with great dialogue. |
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Post by finsobruce on Nov 1, 2018 15:35:33 GMT
I love 30s, 40s, 50s dialogue. Do use use the newish channel 'Talking Pictures'? It has a wealth of old stuff with great dialogue. Ah, coincidentally my mate Richard was enthusing about this at the pub quiz the other night.
I note from their website that yesterday's highlights included "Old Mother Riley Meets the Vampire" "The Monster from Green Hell" (about giant mutant wasps) and a film of Algernon Blackwood reading one of his own ghost stories.
Tomorrow includes a 1948 documentary called "Ancient Stones".
I will try and check it out.
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carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on Nov 1, 2018 15:44:46 GMT
I love 30s, 40s, 50s dialogue. Do use use the newish channel 'Talking Pictures'? It has a wealth of old stuff with great dialogue. Ah, coincidentally my mate Richard was enthusing about this at the pub quiz the other night.
I note from their website that yesterday's highlights included "Old Mother Riley Meets the Vampire" "The Monster from Green Hell" (about giant mutant wasps) and a film of Algernon Blackwood reading one of his own ghost stories.
Tomorrow includes a 1948 documentary called "Ancient Stones".
I will try and check it out.
I watched Algernon myself yesterday. Real old style performance by a master from memory and with pauses and repeats when he forgot where he was. A real treat. The immediate post-war black and white pot-boilers are often full of interesting street scenes and old vehicles and steam trains. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Nov 1, 2018 16:48:40 GMT
TPTV has been going for some time, actually. It was started by the company who do Renown Films as a sort of adjunct to their DVD sales business.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 1, 2018 19:17:47 GMT
Well, well... www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/01/bolsonaro-sergio-moro-brazil-justice-ministry-anti-corruptionThis is a very bad decision by Moro. Although, the outrage from the PT is hilarious, for various reasons: 1. The PT used to accuse Moro of being in the pay of the PSDB. Now, he's apparently always been in the pay of Bolsonaro. Notably, the PSDB ended up being investigated. 2. If you're going to complain about a cosy relationship between the judiciary and politicians, that's reasonable. Although I'd pick a better person to discuss it than Gleisi Hoffmann- if you're interested, have a look at why her husband is not in prison. 3. The PT's desire to see Lava Jato as an anti-PT action was not really expressed when it took out the likes of Cunha, Cabral, Collor de Mello, Maia and other such rum types. Also, I note that the article claims that Haddad was "little-known". I think I'm not incorrect in saying that this is a somewhat questionable statement. There's a lot to go for Bolsonaro on. Accusing him of collusion with the Lava Jato investigation, when he was a fringe politician until relatively recently, is thin gruel, although it is the interests of the PT, PSDB, and PMDB amongst others to get this narrative going. And it probably explains why Maduro has been kissing his arse, as he and Chavez were implicated in Lava Jato too. |
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Post by Ghyl Tarvoke on Nov 1, 2018 22:07:27 GMT
Strong support for the colour scheme there, Sibboleth. Anyway it was a very Third World - and New World at that - election, down from Bolsonaro's massive strength in the cities to Haddad's being dominant in Sertao. |
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