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Post by batman on Nov 4, 2022 10:35:10 GMT
you might find this link useful : www.dw.com/en/rising-anti-semitism-in-hungary-worries-jewish-groups/a-55978374Antisemitism is deeply ingrained in Hungarian society and was very much present under Communism just as it is today. Mostly Orban has used antisemitic tropes (especially those relating to George Soros) to gain electoral support. However, I would argue that there is an antisemitic element to his policies too, as per this article, not just in discourse. Of course Jobbik is much more directly antisemitic than Fidesz is, but I don't accept that Hungarian policy is free of discrimination against Jews. Not that it's necessary to have a hard-right government for Jewish people to feel insecure; France has a centrist government, but I think it's probably true to say that French Jews are more afraid today than Hungarian Jews are. |
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Post by Merseymike on Nov 4, 2022 10:43:23 GMT
Netanyahu's complete indifference to diaspora Jews. Interesting observation. It appears to coincide with some of the expressed views of rcronald - relating to US Jewry which is the largest population outside Israel. Do you think it indicates that the Israeli right has adopted a type of nationalism above all else - which is likely to have less appeal to some on the diaspora ? If so, is this deliberate? |
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Post by batman on Nov 4, 2022 11:31:59 GMT
that's certainly part of it. To me however it's more that Netanyahu is only really interested in Jews in Israel unless and until diaspora Jews decide to move to Israel, which the great majority of us prefer not to do. He thus places a much greater premium on people who express support for Israel than on anything else. If a leader has antisemitic opinions or uses antisemitic speech, but backs Israel 100% (Trump is an even better example) Netanyahu is far more interested in the latter than the former. He probably thinks that Jewish people who prefer to live in the countries of our birth are not very sound, though of course I may be guilty of being unfair to him in that. Of course he would stop short of expressing support for actively antisemitic policies which are carried out by other governments and has condemned atrocities such as the Tree of Life massacre in Pittsburgh, but it would normally be laced with at least the strong implication that we should all go & make aliyah to Israel. Which personally I would only do in the most extreme last resort.
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,450
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Nov 4, 2022 11:34:18 GMT
Netanyahu's complete indifference to diaspora Jews. Interesting observation. It appears to coincide with some of the expressed views of rcronald - relating to US Jewry which is the largest population outside Israel. Do you think it indicates that the Israeli right has adopted a type of nationalism above all else - which is likely to have less appeal to some on the diaspora ? If so, is this deliberate? I find it sad Netanyahu is back |
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Post by rcronald on Nov 4, 2022 12:43:45 GMT
you might find this link useful : www.dw.com/en/rising-anti-semitism-in-hungary-worries-jewish-groups/a-55978374Antisemitism is deeply ingrained in Hungarian society and was very much present under Communism just as it is today. Mostly Orban has used antisemitic tropes (especially those relating to George Soros) to gain electoral support. However, I would argue that there is an antisemitic element to his policies too, as per this article, not just in discourse. Of course Jobbik is much more directly antisemitic than Fidesz is, but I don't accept that Hungarian policy is free of discrimination against Jews. Not that it's necessary to have a hard-right government for Jewish people to feel insecure; France has a centrist government, but I think it's probably true to say that French Jews are more afraid today than Hungarian Jews are. The creator/main advisor of Orban’s campaign against Soros is an Israeli Jew if I remember correctly. |
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Post by rcronald on Nov 4, 2022 12:57:17 GMT
Netanyahu's complete indifference to diaspora Jews. Interesting observation. It appears to coincide with some of the expressed views of rcronald - relating to US Jewry which is the largest population outside Israel. Do you think it indicates that the Israeli right has adopted a type of nationalism above all else - which is likely to have less appeal to some on the diaspora ? If so, is this deliberate? From my observation, the only Jewry that Israeli Jews seem to dislike is the American one, mostly because it is generally associated with the hard left in Israel. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Nov 4, 2022 13:17:10 GMT
you might find this link useful : www.dw.com/en/rising-anti-semitism-in-hungary-worries-jewish-groups/a-55978374Antisemitism is deeply ingrained in Hungarian society and was very much present under Communism just as it is today. Mostly Orban has used antisemitic tropes (especially those relating to George Soros) to gain electoral support. However, I would argue that there is an antisemitic element to his policies too, as per this article, not just in discourse. Of course Jobbik is much more directly antisemitic than Fidesz is, but I don't accept that Hungarian policy is free of discrimination against Jews. Not that it's necessary to have a hard-right government for Jewish people to feel insecure; France has a centrist government, but I think it's probably true to say that French Jews are more afraid today than Hungarian Jews are. I can't see any specific government policies listed there. It mostly seems to amount to being nasty about George Soros who happens to be Jewish (but who is widely despised, not only in Hungary, because he is a cunt, not because he is Jewish). French jews are afraid because of the large and hostile Islamic population of that country (something Orban is keen not to replicate in Hungary) - not as far as I'm aware due to any specific policies by the French government (again happy to have them drawn to my attention if they exist). |
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Post by Merseymike on Nov 4, 2022 13:52:24 GMT
Interesting observation. It appears to coincide with some of the expressed views of rcronald - relating to US Jewry which is the largest population outside Israel. Do you think it indicates that the Israeli right has adopted a type of nationalism above all else - which is likely to have less appeal to some on the diaspora ? If so, is this deliberate? From my observation, the only Jewry that Israeli Jews seem to dislike is the American one, mostly because it is generally associated with the hard left in Israel. Isn't that because Israel has itself turned to the hard right whereas American Jewry other than the ultra-orthodox is liberal in US terms? I guess being a mainstream US Democrat might indicate voting for Meretz these days! |
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Post by Merseymike on Nov 4, 2022 13:53:21 GMT
you might find this link useful : www.dw.com/en/rising-anti-semitism-in-hungary-worries-jewish-groups/a-55978374Antisemitism is deeply ingrained in Hungarian society and was very much present under Communism just as it is today. Mostly Orban has used antisemitic tropes (especially those relating to George Soros) to gain electoral support. However, I would argue that there is an antisemitic element to his policies too, as per this article, not just in discourse. Of course Jobbik is much more directly antisemitic than Fidesz is, but I don't accept that Hungarian policy is free of discrimination against Jews. Not that it's necessary to have a hard-right government for Jewish people to feel insecure; France has a centrist government, but I think it's probably true to say that French Jews are more afraid today than Hungarian Jews are. The creator/main advisor of Orban’s campaign against Soros is an Israeli Jew if I remember correctly. From the hard right element? I think Israel may find it difficult to maintain its friends with the current government in power. Indeed, as someone unsympathetic to Israel, I'm intrigued to see how some of them will deal with it. |
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Post by michaelarden on Nov 4, 2022 14:24:44 GMT
Well😳. They do both hate judges who do their jobs and try and hold the corrupt to account, so makes sense. It’s pretty well known that they are personal friends and have been personal friends for like 20 years 😅 Hopefully they can both soon share the same prison cell... |
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Post by rcronald on Nov 4, 2022 17:33:19 GMT
From my observation, the only Jewry that Israeli Jews seem to dislike is the American one, mostly because it is generally associated with the hard left in Israel. Isn't that because Israel has itself turned to the hard right whereas American Jewry other than the ultra-orthodox is liberal in US terms? I guess being a mainstream US Democrat might indicate voting for Meretz these days! No, because Americans tend to fund left wing organizations here (funded the gotv operation in the Arab areas for example). |
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,721
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Post by CatholicLeft on Nov 4, 2022 18:56:47 GMT
Isn't that because Israel has itself turned to the hard right whereas American Jewry other than the ultra-orthodox is liberal in US terms? I guess being a mainstream US Democrat might indicate voting for Meretz these days! No, because Americans tend to fund left wing organizations here (funded the gotv operation in the Arab areas for example). Why is it left-wing to fund operations to "Get Out The Vote"? I seriously fear for the right-wing need, reported in Israel and the US, to suppress the vote. Encourage everybody to vote, engage the Arab community and that is how one can hope for proper participatory democracy. |
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maxque
Non-Aligned
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Post by maxque on Nov 5, 2022 0:53:48 GMT
Of course Netanyahu supports Orban. A big part of his foreign policy is to stroke antisemitism around the world to force Jewish people to leave their country and move to Israel.
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Post by rcronald on Nov 5, 2022 11:40:23 GMT
No, because Americans tend to fund left wing organizations here (funded the gotv operation in the Arab areas for example). Why is it left-wing to fund operations to "Get Out The Vote"? I seriously fear for the right-wing need, reported in Israel and the US, to suppress the vote. Encourage everybody to vote, engage the Arab community and that is how one can hope for proper participatory democracy. It is left wing because they only fund it in areas that vote against the right. The Israeli periphery had an abysmal turnout as well (the right won this time because it increased significantly) and us funded left wing organizations certainly didn't try to increase the turnout there. |
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Post by Merseymike on Nov 5, 2022 11:44:28 GMT
Why is it left-wing to fund operations to "Get Out The Vote"? I seriously fear for the right-wing need, reported in Israel and the US, to suppress the vote. Encourage everybody to vote, engage the Arab community and that is how one can hope for proper participatory democracy. It is left wing because they only fund it in areas that vote against the right. The Israeli periphery had an abysmal turnout as well (the right won this time because it increased significantly) and us funded left wing organizations certainly didn't try to increase the turnout there. That's because American Jewry is mostly liberal to mainstream Democrat - they support Israel but I wonder for how long with the disreputable individuals likely to be part of the Government |
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Post by rcronald on Nov 5, 2022 12:27:48 GMT
It is left wing because they only fund it in areas that vote against the right. The Israeli periphery had an abysmal turnout as well (the right won this time because it increased significantly) and us funded left wing organizations certainly didn't try to increase the turnout there. That's because American Jewry is mostly liberal to mainstream Democrat - they support Israel but I wonder for how long with the disreputable individuals likely to be part of the Government Netanyahu wants to bury RZ and the more radical wing of Likud in domestic policy (RZ is likely to receive Internal Security and Education), there are also rumors that he wants to “pinkwash” by giving Ohana the foreign ministry. |
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Georg Ebner
Non-Aligned
Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
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Post by Georg Ebner on Nov 5, 2022 12:45:35 GMT
Once again the municipalities with more than 32.000 eligible voters, but this time augmented with the sums of both camps:  |
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Post by rcronald on Nov 5, 2022 12:57:41 GMT
Once again the municipalities with more than 32.000 eligible voters, but this time augmented with the sums of both camps: I wouldn't call the anti-bibi bloc left wing tbh, but great spreadsheet! |
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Georg Ebner
Non-Aligned
Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,813
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Post by Georg Ebner on Nov 5, 2022 13:03:42 GMT
Once again the municipalities with more than 32.000 eligible voters, but this time augmented with the sums of both camps: I wouldn't call the anti-bibi bloc left wing tbh, but great spreadsheet! Yes, i hesitated, too (cf. the colouring of YB). But "pro/anti-Netanyahu" would have been too long and "pro/anti-Bibi" too intimate/vulgar. |
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Georg Ebner
Non-Aligned
Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,813
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Post by Georg Ebner on Nov 7, 2022 0:57:38 GMT
If You - or anyone else - want, i can put it into GoogleDrive. "Only" municipalities with more than 10.000 eligible voters were translated from the EC-original, though (~120/1.200). |
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