The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Apr 10, 2018 10:01:14 GMT
Yes, but its a bit like the claims we heard so much in recent years that Labour needed to "understand" UKIP voters. How do you do that whilst still remaining reasonably true to the principles which left/progressive parties genuinely believe in? And just downright pandering to such people isn't merely unprincipled, it mostly doesn't work.
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Post by Merseymike on Apr 10, 2018 10:32:39 GMT
The Left has deep problems in Hungary, rooted in its history, public perceptions of that history and a systematic inability to engage with public opinion. Not sure I agree with that. In fact, after independence, the left and right alternated in government for quite a few years. That ended when the centre-left government was shown to have deliberately lied and misrepresented facts, and they have never recovered - it also coincided with the move of Fidesz to become a fully fledged populist party of the right. Amusing to think that they started as a party of radical liberalism! |
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Post by mrpastelito on Apr 10, 2018 10:33:56 GMT
Yes, but its a bit like the claims we heard so much in recent years that Labour needed to "understand" UKIP voters. How do you do that whilst still remaining reasonably true to the principles which left/progressive parties genuinely believe in? Well, certainly not by looking down on them in the arrogant, self-righteous, conceited manner of the morally and intellectually superior. |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Apr 10, 2018 10:45:45 GMT
oh my... where have we heard this before: "The inhabitants of villages, in fact, the poorest villages, voted in droves for Fidesz. They are under-educated, ill-informed, and brainwashed". During the article that journalist/propagandist is complaining the Left's quarrels and finally she admits, the a united party wouldn't be enough... (What is not so unobvious since 2014!) Yet, a decade (and some more years) ago it appeared, that Orban would stay in eternal wilderness (like Slovenia's Jansa). |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Apr 10, 2018 12:43:31 GMT
The Left has deep problems in Hungary, rooted in its history, public perceptions of that history and a systematic inability to engage with public opinion. Not sure I agree with that. In fact, after independence, the left and right alternated in government for quite a few years. That ended when the centre-left government was shown to have deliberately lied and misrepresented facts, and they have never recovered - it also coincided with the move of Fidesz to become a fully fledged populist party of the right. Amusing to think that they started as a party of radical liberalism! Hungary is a peculiar, troubled, wonderful place. It's basically France with irredentism and better beer. But it is that peculiarity that seems to rise up and dominate any ideology. Communism, conservatism and liberalism alike have found themselves bending to deal with the impacts of Trianon. |
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myth11
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Post by myth11 on Apr 10, 2018 16:51:46 GMT
Many progressive parties around the world display this same attitude (the one stated at the end of this article) since they are often failing to reach out to rural and poorer voters and are too city-focused. It is holding them back significantly and they need to be more inclusive and more understanding. I have often wondered what impact emigration from eastern Europe has had on "progressive" parties. I have found some polling which seems to back this up. dailynewshungary.com/population-catastrophe-another-million-hungarians-to-leave-the-country/ |
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Post by No Offence Alan on Apr 10, 2018 22:30:23 GMT
Many progressive parties around the world display this same attitude (the one stated at the end of this article) since they are often failing to reach out to rural and poorer voters and are too city-focused. It is holding them back significantly and they need to be more inclusive and more understanding. I have often wondered what impact emigration from eastern Europe has had on "progressive" parties. I have found some polling which seems to back this up. dailynewshungary.com/population-catastrophe-another-million-hungarians-to-leave-the-country/Isn't it the old story that the people with the "get-up-and-go" err, get up and go? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2018 10:05:34 GMT
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Apr 11, 2018 10:18:11 GMT
But that's not really true, is it?
They might not *like* why he is popular, but that is a subtly different thing.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Apr 11, 2018 12:10:31 GMT
But that's not really true, is it? They might not *like* why he is popular, but that is a subtly different thing. You do read the odd article that doesn't get it, and has no real clue as to why he is in power. See also PiS, Fico, Putin, and various others. Although I must admit I don't get the appeal of the clowns in Romania... |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Apr 11, 2018 12:17:09 GMT
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mboy
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Post by mboy on Apr 11, 2018 18:47:55 GMT
And also implausible - why would Orban supporting Serbia getting Kosovo back make the slightest difference to anything at all?
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Post by greenhert on Apr 11, 2018 22:42:50 GMT
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Apr 12, 2018 8:16:50 GMT
A small objection: You claim FIDESZ-voters to feel left behind by the EU and then report strong FIDESZ-support in the wealthy west, what is rather a contradiction, isn't it? |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Apr 12, 2018 10:14:07 GMT
About as believable as most of her stuff, tbh. Genuinely terrible "journalist". |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Apr 12, 2018 13:26:42 GMT
About as believable as most of her stuff, tbh. Genuinely terrible "journalist". Carole Cadwalladr seems to be trying to follow her lead! |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Apr 12, 2018 13:30:44 GMT
Interesting read, but UKIP are really not comparable to Jobbik. |
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Post by greenhert on Apr 12, 2018 18:32:37 GMT
They are now in some ways, since JOBBIK has apparently become less extreme (if not very much so) than it was in 2014.
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Post by greenhert on Apr 12, 2018 18:34:16 GMT
A small objection: You claim FIDESZ-voters to feel left behind by the EU and then report strong FIDESZ-support in the wealthy west, what is rather a contradiction, isn't it? Not entirely-look at the distribution of Conservative support in 2017 with their "hard Brexit" stance. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Apr 14, 2018 14:33:31 GMT
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