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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 14:33:12 GMT
I wonder what the most 'English' part of Scotland is (to the extent that that is possible)? My suggestion would be the Borders, Edinburgh and bits of Aberdeenshire. In Northern Ireland, it would have to be North Down: Holywood, Bangor, the area around Stormont etc. Portrush feels very much like an English seaside town too. Definitely Dumfriesshire imo, they even sound English😉😂 Probably for another thread, but the 2011 census by Holyrood constituency reveals... 'White: Other British' ethnicity: Moray (19.4%); Edinburgh Central (18.7%); Ettrick, Roxburgh & Berwickshire (18.0%); Orkney (17.7%); Skye, Lochaber & Badenoch (17.5%); Edinburgh Southern (17.1%); Dumfriesshire (16.3%); Fife North East (16.2%); Galloway & West Dumfries (16.1%); Caithness, Sutherland & Ross (16.0%). Lowest is Coatbridge & Chryston (2.1%). Born in England: Ettrick, Roxburgh & Berwickshire (21.0%); Moray (18.8%); Skye, Lochaber & Badenoch (18.6%); Dumfriesshire (18.5%); Edinburgh Central (18.4%); Orkney (17.6%); Caithness, Sutherland & Ross (17.4%); Galloway & West Dumfries (17.4%); Edinburgh Southern (16.6%); Fife North East (16.4%). Lowest is Coatbridge & Chryston (2.6%). 'British only' national identity: Edinburgh Central (14.4%); Edinburgh Southern (14.4%); Glasgow Southside (13.4%); Glasgow Kelvin (11.6%); Moray (11.6%); Shetland (11.6%); Skye, Lochaber & Badenoch (11.5%); Edinburgh Northern & Leith (11.1%); Aberdeenshire West (10.9%); Ettrick, Roxburgh & Berwickshire (10.8%). Lowest is Coatbridge & Chryston (5.7%). 'English only' national identity: Ettrick, Roxburgh & Berwickshire (6.8%); Dumfriesshire (6.4%); Moray (6.1%); Orkney (6.0%); Galloway & West Dumfries (5.8%); Caithness, Sutherland & Ross (5.2%); Skye, Lochaber & Badenoch (5.1%); Shetland (4.6%); Fife North East (4.2%); Argyll & Bute (4.2%). Lowest is Glasgow Pollok (0.7%). |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 15:03:59 GMT
Definitely Dumfriesshire imo, they even sound English😉😂 Probably for another thread, but the 2011 census by Holyrood constituency reveals... 'White: Other British' ethnicity: Moray (19.4%); Edinburgh Central (18.7%); Ettrick, Roxburgh & Berwickshire (18.0%); Orkney (17.7%); Skye, Lochaber & Badenoch (17.5%); Edinburgh Southern (17.1%); Dumfriesshire (16.3%); Fife North East (16.2%); Galloway & West Dumfries (16.1%); Caithness, Sutherland & Ross (16.0%). Lowest is Coatbridge & Chryston (2.1%). Born in England: Ettrick, Roxburgh & Berwickshire (21.0%); Moray (18.8%); Skye, Lochaber & Badenoch (18.6%); Dumfriesshire (18.5%); Edinburgh Central (18.4%); Orkney (17.6%); Caithness, Sutherland & Ross (17.4%); Galloway & West Dumfries (17.4%); Edinburgh Southern (16.6%); Fife North East (16.4%). Lowest is Coatbridge & Chryston (2.6%). 'British only' national identity: Edinburgh Central (14.4%); Edinburgh Southern (14.4%); Glasgow Southside (13.4%); Glasgow Kelvin (11.6%); Moray (11.6%); Shetland (11.6%); Skye, Lochaber & Badenoch (11.5%); Edinburgh Northern & Leith (11.1%); Aberdeenshire West (10.9%); Ettrick, Roxburgh & Berwickshire (10.8%). Lowest is Coatbridge & Chryston (5.7%). 'English only' national identity: Ettrick, Roxburgh & Berwickshire (6.8%); Dumfriesshire (6.4%); Moray (6.1%); Orkney (6.0%); Galloway & West Dumfries (5.8%); Caithness, Sutherland & Ross (5.2%); Skye, Lochaber & Badenoch (5.1%); Shetland (4.6%); Fife North East (4.2%); Argyll & Bute (4.2%). Lowest is Glasgow Pollok (0.7%). I was referring to culture likeness, which is defo Dumfriesshire and indeed as shown above Berwickshire, but I take your point. |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 8, 2018 15:19:12 GMT
I wonder what the most 'English' part of Scotland is (to the extent that that is possible)? Gretna and environs, I would have thought. Even the local accents are (mostly) very English. |
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Post by Lord Twaddleford on Feb 8, 2018 15:21:08 GMT
The "ckkkkkk" sound in the Scouse accent is from Wales though it's actually become much stronger in Liverpool over the past 50 years. Curiously, Scouse is probably the British accent I find most difficult to understand which would be surprising if it has strong Welsh influences. If I had to hazard a guess, I would assume he's talking about the way Scousers occasionally tend to pronounce K sounds, e.g. the word "book", the way a Scouser pronounces the final K would sound a bit more like the way CH is pronounced in "loch". I hope that made sense, and if any Scousers wish to correct me on the matter, please do. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 16:00:22 GMT
I was referring to culture likeness, which is defo Dumfriesshire and indeed as shown above Berwickshire, but I take your point. In which case, the Holyrood constituency most culturally similar to the part of England where I grew up is probably Glasgow Southside...  |
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Chris from Brum
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Post by Chris from Brum on Feb 8, 2018 18:45:37 GMT
I wonder what the most 'English' part of Scotland is (to the extent that that is possible)?. Corby  |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Feb 9, 2018 14:16:06 GMT
Can you give us an example of this "ckkkkkk" sound?Curiously, Scouse is probably the British accent I find most difficult to understand which would be surprising if it has strong Welsh influences. If I had to hazard a guess, I would assume he's talking about the way Scousers occasionally tend to pronounce K sounds, e.g. the word "book", the way a Scouser pronounces the final K would sound a bit more like the way CH is pronounced in "loch". I hope that made sense, and if any Scousers wish to correct me on the matter, please do. Listen to a Scouser say "brick" Actors "learning scouse" have to practice saying "purple chicken" |
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Feb 9, 2018 15:33:20 GMT
I know this guy from Wrexham who strongly affiliates with NW England over Wales. Sensible chap. There is no reason to affiliate with Wales if you speak English and are even remotely employable. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2018 17:06:50 GMT
I tend to want the Scots to at least avoid the wooden spoon being that my fathers family are Scottish. My mothers is Irish but I have a bitter rivalry with my friend whose father is Irish
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cefin
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Post by cefin on Feb 9, 2018 18:45:37 GMT
It's a shame that all those grounds are in South Wales, given that North Wales is far more football-centric. The majority of Welsh Premier League clubs are from there, aren't they? But AIUI the Racecourse Ground is a bit of a wreck these days. I wouldn't say it's the case that North Wales has more football than South Wales just that Rugby up there is much weaker and as you say has always been more football orientated that rugby wise. It's just that all the bigger football clubs ( apart from Wrexham) are in the South and are in the English league system rather than the LOW, Cardiff, Swansea, Newport, Merthyr thus leaving the LOW dominated by Mid and North Wales teams with the exception of Barry and Cardiff Met. The situation is that the overwhelming majority of Welsh club rugby takes place in South Wales in fact if you recall every single first class club before regions were all within 50 miles of each other in South Wales. Rugby is very weak in North Wales in realistic numbers terms. But in my experience growing up in South Wales there were always 10 football players for every rugby player it's just that the old parasitic journalistic network have always given the impression of Wales being rugby mad when in truth Cardiff is invaded on International day by 100,000 fans on a day out on the pop, the overwhelming majority of whom have never been to a club game in their lives. Having badgered the BBC into carrying out research and a TV report into the decline of rugby in Wales almost 15 years ago now I still wonder if the Welsh public realise how low rugby playing numbers are in Wales. Those 15 years ago I worked out a rough estimate of no more than 18,000 adult players in the whole country based on the clubs then in existence, That number must be greatly reduced these days with the reduction in clubs and the huge reduction in the number of teams that those left put out. Lack of participation in football and Rugby should be a massive concern to sports organisations and the government ( I wouldn't imagine the picture is much different in the rest of the UK) For example myself and a couple of mates choose a parks game to watch every Saturday and then go on for a couple of beers afterwards just to get out of the house now that we have all got too old to play ourselves. We often watch a team based at Pontcanna fields in Cardiff where I used to play football with approximately 16 or 17 pitches fully occupied every week. We never see more than one game in progress there now. In Barry where the Vale of Glamorgan league is based largely around Buttrills playing fields ( 14 pitches ) again another old haunt of mine whilst playing, the Head of Parks told me that there were exactly 0 games booked in to play there the other week when I spoke to him. I travel around most of the major playing fields in and around the Cardiff area on Match days and there are barely any games in progress at any of them rugby or football. These really are worrying figures and surely must be a huge cause of concern for all of us countrywide? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2018 18:54:40 GMT
In which case, the Holyrood constituency most culturally similar to the part of England where I grew up is probably Glasgow Southside... Where did you grow up, Bradford? Birmingham Selly Oak. Glasgow Cathcart might be a nearer comparison, actually, though it's complicated by the fact that I went to a school that was about 40% South Asian. |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Feb 11, 2018 14:04:51 GMT
In terms of football support Everton have always has a strong following in North Wales - again emphasizing the links between the parts of North Wales near the border and coast to Liverpool. Vice versa too - if we fancy a day out in the country it's very accessible to head to North Wales
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Feb 13, 2018 21:41:37 GMT
It's a border area - the cultural border between Wales and England is broad and porous on both sides. So there are strong English influences in Flintshire (going back a very long way as well - its political status in the Middle Ages for instance was... complicated), but there are also strong Welsh influences in Chester (especially!), Liverpool and so on. I've always thought there was quite a lot of Welsh (and Irish of course) in the Liverpool accent, and presumed that quite a lot of the population of Victorian Liverpool were drawn there from North Wales. The modern-day ramifications may be hard to tease out, but the links go back a long way beyond that. Apparently most of the placenames in Sefton are ultimately of Welsh origin, due to extensive Welsh settlement there in the 12th century. |
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Post by Lord Twaddleford on Feb 13, 2018 22:06:06 GMT
I've always thought there was quite a lot of Welsh (and Irish of course) in the Liverpool accent, and presumed that quite a lot of the population of Victorian Liverpool were drawn there from North Wales. The modern-day ramifications may be hard to tease out, but the links go back a long way beyond that. Apparently most of the placenames in Sefton are ultimately of Welsh origin, due to extensive Welsh settlement there in the 12th century. This reminds of a village called Llangarron, which as you can probably guess from the context of the discussion, is not in Wales; it's in Herefordshire. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 13, 2018 22:17:13 GMT
Lots of villages with Welsh names in Shropshire as well.
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Feb 13, 2018 22:58:29 GMT
I've always thought there was quite a lot of Welsh (and Irish of course) in the Liverpool accent, and presumed that quite a lot of the population of Victorian Liverpool were drawn there from North Wales. The modern-day ramifications may be hard to tease out, but the links go back a long way beyond that. Apparently most of the placenames in Sefton are ultimately of Welsh origin, due to extensive Welsh settlement there in the 12th century. Consider also the etymology of Wallasey. |
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Khunanup
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Post by Khunanup on Feb 17, 2018 17:33:58 GMT
Unlike almost every other seat in Wales, Wrexham actually swung to the Conservatives in 2017. It also swung to the Tories in 2015 while Alyn & Deeside and Delyn saw static Labour holds. A swing of 3.1% from LAB to CON since 2010. 2015 majority: 1,831 (5.6%) 2017 majority: 1,832 (5.2%) Yes, the majority was up by 1 vote! I know that feeling... |
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Khunanup
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Post by Khunanup on Feb 17, 2018 18:00:39 GMT
The modern-day ramifications may be hard to tease out, but the links go back a long way beyond that. Apparently most of the placenames in Sefton are ultimately of Welsh origin, due to extensive Welsh settlement there in the 12th century. Consider also the etymology of Wallasey. Indeed. The Wirral was the original Merseyside melting pot with pointers to the Welsh and Irish Norse in place names and the accent probably being more of a precursor of what Liverpool's became (which can probably best be heard from people from the west of the peninsular) when the extreme immigration came from first Wales and then Ireland. On Gwyn's point, perhaps the Scouse and greater Merseyside accent is hard to pick out for himself and other native Welsh speakers because it does things it 'shouldn't'. It quite clearly has deep Welsh influence but it is 'infected' with the South Lancashire accent that was there before (at least on the east bank of the Mersey) and the later Irish influence. That's what makes it so unique and relatively hard to understand like many heavily outside influenced accents. |
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