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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2017 19:51:16 GMT
How long will the government last one wonders. In weeks. Realistically , as long as Peters allows it to. It will be a real test of Arden's political mettle to see how she deals with him. But the Greens vote it down at any point? Even by abstaining in a National vote of no confidence. And surely if Peters is to be saited policies they hate will have to be enacted. I can't see the numbers for this to work. They have less seats than the Nationals combined. It's like if Lib Lab was attempted in 2010. |
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Post by finsobruce on Oct 19, 2017 21:14:41 GMT
Realistically , as long as Peters allows it to. It will be a real test of Arden's political mettle to see how she deals with him. But the Greens vote it down at any point? Even by abstaining in a National vote of no confidence. And surely if Peters is to be saited policies they hate will have to be enacted. I can't see the numbers for this to work. They have less seats than the Nationals combined. It's like if Lib Lab was attempted in 2010. who knows, but less likely i think. railways, railways and more railways. well you've got to admire their courage. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Oct 19, 2017 21:36:52 GMT
My Cassandra-like prediction is that when Ardern naturally sinks in the polls, or NZ First sink when their Rightier MPs get annoyed, Peters will manufacture a big argument with the Greens and use it as his excuse to jump.
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Oct 19, 2017 21:56:54 GMT
My Cassandra-like prediction is that when Ardern naturally sinks in the polls, or NZ First sink when their Rightier MPs get annoyed, Peters will manufacture a big argument with the Greens and use it as his excuse to jump. And I hope National tell him to fuck off. They won’t, of course. |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Oct 19, 2017 21:59:27 GMT
My Cassandra-like prediction is that when Ardern naturally sinks in the polls, or NZ First sink when their Rightier MPs get annoyed, Peters will manufacture a big argument with the Greens and use it as his excuse to jump. I don't believe you. |
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Post by timrollpickering on Oct 19, 2017 22:01:36 GMT
Can Peters hold his party together this time around?
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Post by IceAgeComing on Oct 19, 2017 22:24:09 GMT
One thing should be remembered - NZ First have always had a much better experience when they've governed with Labour than they did with the Nationals. In 1996 when they went with the Nationals (in a situation vaguely similar to the current one, in that NZ First needed to be included in whatever government they put together unless odd things like the Alliance going with the Nationals happened) it all fell apart in two years, NZ First split over Peters choosing to leave government, he threw around accusations about them hiding key information from his ministers, all sorts of things and it ended miserably. In 2005 they supported Labour (in a loose arrangement a lot like the one that the Greens have with them this time rather than the formal coalition they seem to be doing) and generally everyone seems to agree that was a lot more productive for the party in that they got a lot more of their policies put into law and seemed to get along with each other better than he did with the Nationals: he only had to resign towards the end because of a personal corruption scandal and never actually took his party out of government. In that way I'd expect the government to last a decent length of time unless some big scandal emerges - its also not like the Greens and NZ First don't have lots of areas that they could work with each other on as well, NZ First are quite different from the newer right-populist movements that have emerged.
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Post by Andrew_S on Oct 20, 2017 15:12:30 GMT
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Post by jigger on Oct 20, 2017 15:16:42 GMT
The first line could be made even more impressive: "New Zealand now has three four women in the country's top jobs roles- Her Majesty the Queen of New Zealand, the Governor-General, the Chief Justice and the Prime Minister." |
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Oct 20, 2017 18:21:36 GMT
The first line could be made even more impressive: "New Zealand now has three four women in the country's top jobs roles- Her Majesty the Queen of New Zealand, the Governor-General, the Chief Justice and the Prime Minister." Te Atairangikaahu passed away in 2006. |
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Post by jigger on Oct 20, 2017 18:22:33 GMT
The first line could be made even more impressive: "New Zealand now has three four women in the country's top jobs roles- Her Majesty the Queen of New Zealand, the Governor-General, the Chief Justice and the Prime Minister." Te Atairangikaahu passed away in 2006. ? |
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Oct 20, 2017 18:30:18 GMT
My point was that the present Māori monarch is male. New Zealand also had a female Speaker from 2005-08.
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Post by Andrew_S on Oct 20, 2017 18:31:29 GMT
New Zealand is probably the only country where two parties like the Greens and NZ First would go into coalition with each other.
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Post by jigger on Oct 20, 2017 18:32:42 GMT
My point was that the present Māori monarch is male. New Zealand also had a female Speaker from 2005-08. I still don't understand. I'm assuming that I'm missing something glaringly obvious, but you are aware that the Queen of New Zealand is the same person as the Queen of the United Kingdom? |
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Oct 20, 2017 18:34:39 GMT
My point was that the present Māori monarch is male. New Zealand also had a female Speaker from 2005-08. I still don't understand. I'm assuming that I'm missing something glaringly obvious, but you are aware that the Queen of New Zealand is the same person as the Queen of the United Kingdom? I am aware of this legal fiction, but I don't agree with its continuation considering that the indigenous people of Aotearoa have come up with a ready-made replacement. |
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mboy
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Post by mboy on Oct 20, 2017 19:26:30 GMT
The position of "Monarch of the Maori" is disputed by some of the tribes, as it was created only in response to the British monarch, and didn't have the agreement of all. The position has never claimed to be the monarch of New Zealand.
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Oct 20, 2017 20:36:46 GMT
The position of "Monarch of the Maori" is disputed by some of the tribes, as it was created only in response to the British monarch, and didn't have the agreement of all. The position has never claimed to be the monarch of New Zealand. Indeed, but such an arrangement would be preferable to keeping a nominal head of state who not only isn't home-grown but also lives on the other side of the world... and in future, British monarchs will probably be too old to contemplate making frequent visits by the time they accede to the throne. |
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Oct 20, 2017 21:32:56 GMT
I still don't understand. I'm assuming that I'm missing something glaringly obvious, but you are aware that the Queen of New Zealand is the same person as the Queen of the United Kingdom? I am aware of this legal fiction, but I don't agree with its continuation considering that the indigenous people of Aotearoa have come up with a ready-made replacement. Unlike you to dispute something which is legal fact. There is one named Queen of New Zealand- the Maori monarch isn't accepted by all Maori and doesn't claim to be the monarch of New Zealand. |
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Oct 20, 2017 21:36:08 GMT
I am not disputing the veracity of the current de jure status of Elizabeth II with regard to New Zealand. I'm merely pointing out that I find that, and the fact that Kiwis voted to keep the Union Jack in the canton of their flag, embarrassing.
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Oct 20, 2017 21:39:38 GMT
I am not disputing the veracity of the current de jure status of Elizabeth II with regard to New Zealand. I'm merely pointing out that I find that, and the fact that Kiwis voted to keep the Union Jack in the canton of their flag, embarrassing. The Union Flag, you mean? You should point that out, then: for a pedant you are usually mealy mouthed at times. |
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