Georg Ebner
Non-Aligned
Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,813 
|
Post by Georg Ebner on Apr 16, 2017 9:54:11 GMT
The latest post in the "Turkey"-thread is from March, so an own one for today might be suitable.
|
|
Georg Ebner
Non-Aligned
Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,813
|
Post by Georg Ebner on Apr 16, 2017 9:54:57 GMT
PollingStations are going to close at 17.00.
|
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,916
|
Post by The Bishop on Apr 16, 2017 9:57:28 GMT
Is there any serious doubt that Die Fuhrer Erdogan will get his way again?
|
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Apr 16, 2017 10:02:38 GMT
Here comes the Enabling Act.
|
|
mondialito
Labour
Everything is horribly, brutally possible.
Posts: 4,961
|
Post by mondialito on Apr 16, 2017 10:16:42 GMT
On what? Which side will win? What would the forum vote for? Are the changes a good idea? Where will Erdogan stop? |
|
jamie
Top Poster
Posts: 7,054
|
Post by jamie on Apr 16, 2017 11:30:40 GMT
Remember seeing an advisor to Erdogan on Newsnight a few days ago. He claimed that this referendum was actually about reducing his power...
|
|
peterl
Green
Congratulations President Trump
Posts: 8,473
|
Post by peterl on Apr 16, 2017 12:46:46 GMT
Could someone link to the background on this please?
|
|
Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
Posts: 19,052
|
Post by Richard Allen on Apr 16, 2017 13:01:55 GMT
Could someone link to the background on this please? In short it creates a powerful executive Presidency (head of state and head of government) while removing the office of Prime Minister and thus substantially reducing the power of the Parliament. This has been long standing AKP policy with the stated reason being that it will enable stronger and more stable government. |
|
peterl
Green
Congratulations President Trump
Posts: 8,473
|
Post by peterl on Apr 16, 2017 13:14:20 GMT
Ok thanks. A policy with definite pluses and minuses then.
|
|
|
|
Post by Merseymike on Apr 16, 2017 14:25:52 GMT
But stronger and more stable government in a democracy normally includes a functioning opposition and different sources of power.
This does not main rain either and as designed will effectively make the elected president overwhelmingly powerful
It wouldn't matter so much if Erdogan had not faked a staged coup last year in order to lock up many of his opponents and close down all opposing media sources and half the universities.
|
|
peterl
Green
Congratulations President Trump
Posts: 8,473
|
Post by peterl on Apr 16, 2017 14:56:25 GMT
So is this a free and fair vote? Surely someone who staged a fake coup wouldn't allow a free vote on increasing his own power?
|
|
|
|
Post by MeirionGwril on Apr 16, 2017 15:03:55 GMT
So is this a free and fair vote? Surely someone who staged a fake coup wouldn't allow a free vote on increasing his own power? Hardly free and fair! |
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,916
|
Post by The Bishop on Apr 16, 2017 15:07:33 GMT
So is this a free and fair vote? Surely someone who staged a fake coup wouldn't allow a free vote on increasing his own power? Weeeeellll........up to a point. "Free-ish"  |
|
peterl
Green
Congratulations President Trump
Posts: 8,473
|
Post by peterl on Apr 16, 2017 16:25:44 GMT
So I found a list on wikipedia of the various amendment being proposed en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_constitutional_referendum,_2017 Some of these actually seem like improvements on paper. Article 1 for instance seems to be guaranteeing the impartiality of the judiciary. Article 3 makes it easier to qualify for election. Article 13 makes acts of the president subject to judicial review. There is even a restriction on the use of military courts. Am I missing something here? |
|
|
|
Post by Andrew_S on Apr 16, 2017 17:10:00 GMT
Is there any serious doubt that Die Fuhrer Erdogan will get his way again? Looks like the final result may be 51-49 in favour of Yes. |
|
Georg Ebner
Non-Aligned
Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,813
|
Post by Georg Ebner on Apr 16, 2017 17:12:04 GMT
With 97.3% counted, YES is ahead (51.?%).
Missing are mainly EastTracia - Edirne and Hakkara -, which will provide huge margins for NO, but it won't be entirely enough.
|
|
Georg Ebner
Non-Aligned
Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,813
|
Post by Georg Ebner on Apr 16, 2017 17:19:32 GMT
97.5: 51.4% YES.
Edirne is finished, Hakkari (88%) and Tunceli (93%) might narrow the gap slightly.
|
|
|
|
Post by Antiochian on Apr 16, 2017 18:02:17 GMT
So I found a list on wikipedia of the various amendment being proposed en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_constitutional_referendum,_2017 Some of these actually seem like improvements on paper. Article 1 for instance seems to be guaranteeing the impartiality of the judiciary. Article 3 makes it easier to qualify for election. Article 13 makes acts of the president subject to judicial review. There is even a restriction on the use of military courts. Am I missing something here? Probably edited on Wikipedia by an AKP factotum. If you can find an independent thinking member of the judiciary that hasn't been fired or arrested then don't say it too loud or the same will happen to him... and probably you also.. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2017 18:16:28 GMT
Next step for Erdogan will be his installation as Sultan and Caliph after the appropriate acclamation by the people.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2017 18:43:46 GMT
And if the people acclaim it, who are we to object? In the good old days when an Ottoman Sultan ascended the throne he had all his brothers murdered. Are we then to sit silent when "Sultan" Erdogan I, starts to permanently rub out the Turkish opposition and intelligentsia?
|
|
