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Post by An Sionnach Flannbhuí on Feb 16, 2017 10:37:21 GMT
Doing It by text is silly when your opponent is saying that Labour don't care about the white working class in favour of a coalition of the fringes. It wasn't done by the Labour candidate or by a part of the Labour campaign. Would someone who sent a text like that count as a Labour agent for the purposes of electoral law?
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 16, 2017 10:46:44 GMT
It wasn't done by the Labour candidate or by a part of the Labour campaign. Would someone who sent a text like that count as a Labour agent for the purposes of electoral law? The content of the message is immaterial. There is extensive case law on what constitutes agency in an election petition, but the general principle is that it must be someone who has been instructed to work on the campaign.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Feb 16, 2017 11:10:03 GMT
It's examples like this that show how silly the 'spiritual intimidation' law is and why it needs to be abolished. A vague statement that people have to answer in judgment after death for their choices in life is pretty standard stuff and it's a really big stretch to say it's saying non-Labour muslim voters will be damned to burn in hellfire for eternity. Basically all this is, is a fairly standard appeal to stick to traditional (perceived) voting patterns or to engage in tactical voting. Standard election stuff. Yes. Naturally I think the text is bollocks, but it certainly does not say that anyone will go to hell, it just says that the consequences of one's actions will be on one's conscience. It's not much different from saying "God may forgive you but I won't". Furthermore, while I do not like communal voting, when you have a Kipper posting "vote Labour for a Jihadi neighbour" it is not irrational to describe UKIP as an anti-Islamic party. If UKIP find Muslims voting tactically to keep them out, they have no-one to blame but themselves. (Another reason why I think the Conservatives should have fought thus election hard. Maybe they'll surprise me.)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 11:27:06 GMT
Looking from afar this seems a prime example of how NOT to run a campaign from various parties. At the risk of thread drift, which by elections have been notable by either the brilliance of the campaign or by Disaster?
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right
Conservative
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Post by right on Feb 16, 2017 11:37:57 GMT
Doing It by text is silly when your opponent is saying that Labour don't care about the white working class in favour of a coalition of the fringes. It wasn't done by the Labour candidate or by a part of the Labour campaign. These messages through "community leaders" work in funny ways. The three main parties all know that they are going on, although they would rather not know the content. I suspect there's enough distance for the police not to arrest anybody, but is there enough distance for the UKIP/Labour switchers, wavering Conservatives or reluctant voters for Labour and UKIP? Unlike the "Babies will die" message in Copeland, this tactic that does have risks if it is repeated outside the target group.
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Post by johnloony on Feb 16, 2017 12:13:32 GMT
Not sure if this has already been posted (didnt fancy slogging through 53 pages to check) but here is a recording of a hustings debate between ALL the candidates (tbf its comparatively tame stuff but may be of interest to hustings fanatics!) Yes it has already been posted (on page 46), and no it does not have "ALL" of the candidates; it only has 8 of them.
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Post by finsobruce on Feb 16, 2017 12:43:03 GMT
It seems that Labour member Navid Hussain was the originator of these tweets. In that case I think the Agent could be held responsible for them. er, no unless the agent told him to send them. and even then....you might have to sue god.
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right
Conservative
Posts: 17,002
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Post by right on Feb 16, 2017 12:47:29 GMT
It wasn't done by the Labour candidate or by a part of the Labour campaign. It was circulated by a Labour activist. Whether it was done with the authority of the Agent is another matter entirely. But how close is this guy to the campaign team itself? It would seem not to be a very smart thing to do....but then lots of these people aren't very smart These are far better being done verbally as they have been for years. It's more labour intensive, but even if you do get recorded then the person who is recording you can be intimidated not to reveal by the threat of making the community look stupid. It's not really a stupid practice, and although I have no idea whether the Tories used this (arms length of course) in Morely or Wakefield - it's well known that this was going on for both Tories and Labour (and Respect) in Bradford - so you must be aware of the community leaders and their persuasion. Of course we don't know what's actually being said... Respect and Tower Hamlets First have done us a great service for making it clear what is going on. The Liberals and Tories were using these methods to reach the Irish Catholic voters in Victorian England, and Labour reformed this in their early years by doing it far, far more effectively and becoming the Irish party outside Ireland. Were my forefathers threatened with an implied possibility of hell for voting for the wrong party? I haven't a clue. Self identified minorities with strong cohesive (usually religious) institutions will often be prone to alternative channels of communication which can seem odd when exposed - particularly when the political culture is radically different from the host culture. In many cases this is as innocuous as working through residents associations but in rare but real cases it's downright sinister. It is a fact of life in a multicultural democracy. And Labour, as an anti-majoritarian party, will always have a distinct advantage.
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Post by carlton43 on Feb 16, 2017 12:48:56 GMT
It's examples like this that show how silly the 'spiritual intimidation' law is and why it needs to be abolished. A vague statement that people have to answer in judgment after death for their choices in life is pretty standard stuff and it's a really big stretch to say it's saying non-Labour muslim voters will be damned to burn in hellfire for eternity. Basically all this is, is a fairly standard appeal to stick to traditional (perceived) voting patterns or to engage in tactical voting. Standard election stuff. No it isn't. It is other part of your disgusting dirty tricks department traducing the name of Nuttall, inventing letters about the NHS in Copeland and spreading disgraceful outright lies about the NHS in general. As a party you are sinking into the most gross behaviour because you perceive yourselves to be failing and anything will do to staunch the outflow of votes. This is very sad.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 16, 2017 12:50:07 GMT
It's examples like this that show how silly the 'spiritual intimidation' law is and why it needs to be abolished. A vague statement that people have to answer in judgment after death for their choices in life is pretty standard stuff and it's a really big stretch to say it's saying non-Labour muslim voters will be damned to burn in hellfire for eternity. Basically all this is, is a fairly standard appeal to stick to traditional (perceived) voting patterns or to engage in tactical voting. Standard election stuff. No it isn't. It is other part of your disgusting dirty tricks department traducing the name of Nuttall, inventing letters about the NHS in Copeland and spreading disgraceful outright lies about the NHS in general. As a party you are sinking into the most gross behaviour because you perceive yourselves to be failing and anything will do to staunch the outflow of votes. This is very sad. Yes dear. Almost time for your walk. Looks nice out but do wrap up.
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Post by carlton43 on Feb 16, 2017 12:50:51 GMT
Doing It by text is silly when your opponent is saying that Labour don't care about the white working class in favour of a coalition of the fringes. It wasn't done by the Labour candidate or by a part of the Labour campaign. LOL !!!
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Post by carlton43 on Feb 16, 2017 12:58:10 GMT
No it isn't. It is other part of your disgusting dirty tricks department traducing the name of Nuttall, inventing letters about the NHS in Copeland and spreading disgraceful outright lies about the NHS in general. As a party you are sinking into the most gross behaviour because you perceive yourselves to be failing and anything will do to staunch the outflow of votes. This is very sad. Yes dear. Almost time for your walk. Looks nice out but do wrap up. You cheap patronizing prick.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Feb 16, 2017 13:09:13 GMT
It's examples like this that show how silly the 'spiritual intimidation' law is and why it needs to be abolished. A vague statement that people have to answer in judgment after death for their choices in life is pretty standard stuff and it's a really big stretch to say it's saying non-Labour muslim voters will be damned to burn in hellfire for eternity. Basically all this is, is a fairly standard appeal to stick to traditional (perceived) voting patterns or to engage in tactical voting. Standard election stuff. No it isn't. It is other part of your disgusting dirty tricks department traducing the name of Nuttall, inventing letters about the NHS in Copeland and spreading disgraceful outright lies about the NHS in general. As a party you are sinking into the most gross behaviour because you perceive yourselves to be failing and anything will do to staunch the outflow of votes. This is very sad. I think Nuttall's doing a pretty good job without any help.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Feb 16, 2017 13:10:00 GMT
It's examples like this that show how silly the 'spiritual intimidation' law is and why it needs to be abolished. A vague statement that people have to answer in judgment after death for their choices in life is pretty standard stuff and it's a really big stretch to say it's saying non-Labour muslim voters will be damned to burn in hellfire for eternity. Basically all this is, is a fairly standard appeal to stick to traditional (perceived) voting patterns or to engage in tactical voting. Standard election stuff. No it isn't. It is other part of your disgusting dirty tricks department traducing the name of Nuttall, inventing letters about the NHS in Copeland and spreading disgraceful outright lies about the NHS in general. As a party you are sinking into the most gross behaviour because you perceive yourselves to be failing and anything will do to staunch the outflow of votes. This is very sad. That sounds juicy - citation?
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,813
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 16, 2017 13:15:07 GMT
It wasn't done by the Labour candidate or by a part of the Labour campaign. LOL !!! Laugh all you like, that's the facts of the situation.
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Post by carlton43 on Feb 16, 2017 13:18:17 GMT
No it isn't. It is other part of your disgusting dirty tricks department traducing the name of Nuttall, inventing letters about the NHS in Copeland and spreading disgraceful outright lies about the NHS in general. As a party you are sinking into the most gross behaviour because you perceive yourselves to be failing and anything will do to staunch the outflow of votes. This is very sad. I think Nuttall's doing a pretty good job without any help. I agree with you. He is a lot of a prat and I did not vote for him and expressed my doubts about him here on other threads. It is a bluster and gaff campaign. No contest. But that has nothing to do with the very poor behaviour by Labour in both constituencies where lies and trivia take the place of substantive policy.
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Post by carlton43 on Feb 16, 2017 13:20:26 GMT
No it isn't. It is other part of your disgusting dirty tricks department traducing the name of Nuttall, inventing letters about the NHS in Copeland and spreading disgraceful outright lies about the NHS in general. As a party you are sinking into the most gross behaviour because you perceive yourselves to be failing and anything will do to staunch the outflow of votes. This is very sad. That sounds juicy - citation? There is a facsimile of a letter on the Copeland thread.
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Post by carlton43 on Feb 16, 2017 13:22:00 GMT
Laugh all you like, that's the facts of the situation. LOL !!!
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Post by mrpastelito on Feb 16, 2017 13:24:18 GMT
Laugh all you like, that's the facts of the situation. Labour should either openly defend his actions, or expel him from the party.
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Post by Old Fashioned Leftie on Feb 16, 2017 13:41:04 GMT
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