Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 22:38:14 GMT
The UK wouldn't have any reason to keep a rump-NI. The main reason a UI is likely in the long term is economic advantages combined with lack of any British strategic and economic interest in the place. If we are in a scenario where a UI is possible (which would require a British government prepared to take a 100% "cold" rational view of the situation) repartition would make no sense. Slicing off areas with a strong Republican tradition and few Protestants is "border regulation", what you suggest is to create a new rump statelet with all the assorted problems. Belfast is on track to become majority Catholic, which makes any core protestant "Antrim/North Down + a bit" unit unfeasible. NI is a ridiculous rump statelet already, and if you slice off NMD and Derry, you might as well slice off a bit more than that. I don't quite see the point of what you call border regulation. Next you'll be telling me Tyrone hasn't any strong Republican tradition. Slice off what I suggested, and make the rest an integral part of Scotland. Belfast can be divided up between Rangers and Celtic, so to speak. No you may not because there are very few other areas that are both adjacent to the border, have a strong Republican tradition and few Protestants (and I am talking about smaller areas than you do, the "D" was your invention I said "parts of South Down"). The situation we were discussing when I made my comment was about federal units in a post-unification scenario, not a repartition between two states, which is a ridiculous scenario. |
|
|
|
Post by mrpastelito on Mar 10, 2017 22:45:03 GMT
NI is a ridiculous rump statelet already, and if you slice off NMD and Derry, you might as well slice off a bit more than that. I don't quite see the point of what you call border regulation. Next you'll be telling me Tyrone hasn't any strong Republican tradition. Slice off what I suggested, and make the rest an integral part of Scotland. Belfast can be divided up between Rangers and Celtic, so to speak. No you may not because there are very few other areas that are both adjacent to the border, have a strong Republican tradition and few Protestants (and I am talking about smaller areas than you do, the "D" was your invention I said "parts of South Down"). The situation we were discussing when I made my comment was about federal units in a post-unification scenario, not a repartition between two states, which is a ridiculous scenario. The "D" referred to local government district Newry, Mourne and Down which as you very well know only includes South Down - so no invention at all. Point taken about federal units in a post-unification scenario - I completely misunderstood you, apologies. |
|
|
|
Post by Ghyl Tarvoke on Mar 14, 2017 22:16:39 GMT
Repartition is a terrible idea for so many reasons - but note that soon Belfast will have an RC majority.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2017 22:17:48 GMT
Repartition is a terrible idea for so many reasons - but note that soon Belfast will have an RC majority. Yeah, I said that. I think we should leave this issue, as the discussion of it was provoked by a misunderstanding. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 18:12:40 GMT
Well done David Davies, Secretary of State for Brexit for suggesting a British Government will let NI join the Republic and stay in the EU if the majority decide. MOST sensible thing about Brexit plans yet.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pete Whitehead on Mar 28, 2017 18:42:00 GMT
Well done David Davies, Secretary of State for Brexit for suggesting a British Government will let NI join the Republic and stay in the EU if the majority decide. That is explicitly stated in the Good Friday agreement |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 18:50:33 GMT
Well done David Davies, Secretary of State for Brexit for suggesting a British Government will let NI join the Republic and stay in the EU if the majority decide. That is explicitly stated in the Good Friday agreement I know but it's the context in which he is making this statement now which is interesting |
|
piperdave
SNP
Dalkeith; Midlothian/North & Musselburgh
Posts: 911
|
Post by piperdave on Mar 29, 2017 21:10:02 GMT
I was listening to Inside Politics on Radio Ulster a couple of weeks ago. Michael Martin TD was being interviewed and suggested that if he were Taoiseach, he would be reluctant to accept Northern Ireland into the Republic unless there was a clear result that commanded the support of all Northern Ireland's communities.
Which then begs the question of how you would determine that a super-majority exists in a border poll? 60% in favour of unification? A majority in every council area/constituency? Answers on a postcard.
|
|
piperdave
SNP
Dalkeith; Midlothian/North & Musselburgh
Posts: 911
|
Post by piperdave on Mar 29, 2017 21:43:33 GMT
And since we're on an Irish unification thread, a wee plug for the thread I did on Dail constituencies for the north. link |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2017 21:47:20 GMT
I was listening to Inside Politics on Radio Ulster a couple of weeks ago. Michael Martin TD was being interviewed and suggested that if he were Taoiseach, he would be reluctant to accept Northern Ireland into the Republic unless there was a clear result that commanded the support of all Northern Ireland's communities. Which then begs the question of how you would determine that a super-majority exists in a border poll? 60% in favour of unification? A majority in every council area/constituency? Answers on a postcard. 60% sounds feasible, but you are unlikely to get it in County Antrim which is DUP heartland. Only thing is, even though a majority in NI voted to remain in the EU they are out. So 60% in favour of the Republic could still mean "in" the UK union to the DUP... |
|
joefaekemlin
SNP
I have been in or around the SNP since I was at primary school and a member since 1980
Posts: 147 
|
Post by joefaekemlin on Mar 30, 2017 0:42:00 GMT
I was listening to Inside Politics on Radio Ulster a couple of weeks ago. Michael Martin TD was being interviewed and suggested that if he were Taoiseach, he would be reluctant to accept Northern Ireland into the Republic unless there was a clear result that commanded the support of all Northern Ireland's communities. Which then begs the question of how you would determine that a super-majority exists in a border poll? 60% in favour of unification? A majority in every council area/constituency? Answers on a postcard. 60% sounds feasible, but you are unlikely to get it in County Antrim which is DUP heartland. Only thing is, even though a majority in NI voted to remain in the EU they are out. So 60% in favour of the Republic could still mean "in" the UK union to the DUP... That's a dangerous road to go down. I cite Scotland 1979 as an example of a bad referendum |
|
johnloony
Conservative
Posts: 24,536
Member is Online
|
Post by johnloony on Mar 30, 2017 3:49:13 GMT
I was listening to Inside Politics on Radio Ulster a couple of weeks ago. Michael Martin TD was being interviewed and suggested that if he were Taoiseach, he would be reluctant to accept Northern Ireland into the Republic unless there was a clear result that commanded the support of all Northern Ireland's communities. Which then begs the question of how you would determine that a super-majority exists in a border poll? 60% in favour of unification? A majority in every council area/constituency? Answers on a postcard. A simple majority of those voting (i.e. more than 50%), without any minimum threshold of turnout, is all that would be required. This is because, in reality, a border poll (i.e. a referendum asking the people of Northern Ireland if they want to join the Republic) would and could only happen if it had already been agreed beforehand by both communities in Northern Ireland, by the government of the U.K., and by the government of the Republic of Ireland. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 6:02:49 GMT
60% sounds feasible, but you are unlikely to get it in County Antrim which is DUP heartland. Only thing is, even though a majority in NI voted to remain in the EU they are out. So 60% in favour of the Republic could still mean "in" the UK union to the DUP... That's a dangerous road to go down. I cite Scotland 1979 as an example of a bad referendum Yes that's a fair point and on reflection what's good enough for the Brexiteers should be good enough for NI. And that should apply to Scotland as well, a simple majority. |
|
seanf
Non-Aligned
Posts: 631
|
Post by seanf on Mar 30, 2017 8:24:58 GMT
Michael Martin may simply be unenthusiastic about the prospect of the DUP and Sinn Fein being major players in the Dail.
|
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,889
Member is Online
|
Post by The Bishop on Mar 30, 2017 11:10:48 GMT
Though of course, there is a growing prospect the latter could come to pass even without NI joining the Republic.
|
|
joefaekemlin
SNP
I have been in or around the SNP since I was at primary school and a member since 1980
Posts: 147
|
Post by joefaekemlin on Apr 1, 2017 16:03:32 GMT
Michael Martin may simply be unenthusiastic about the prospect of the DUP and Sinn Fein being major players in the Dail. Would the Duppers take a lead from the Sinners and abstain from taking their seats in the Dail? |
|
johnloony
Conservative
Posts: 24,536
Member is Online
|
Post by johnloony on Apr 3, 2017 6:10:18 GMT
Michael Martin may simply be unenthusiastic about the prospect of the DUP and Sinn Fein being major players in the Dail. Would the Duppers take a lead from the Sinners and abstain from taking their seats in the Dail? "Duppers"? I doubt if they would be prodded or duped into such a féint like that. Even if they thought it was a good tactic, they wouldn't do it anyway because it would be an obvious example of copycat ting their opponents. |
|
joefaekemlin
SNP
I have been in or around the SNP since I was at primary school and a member since 1980
Posts: 147
|
Post by joefaekemlin on Apr 3, 2017 11:03:13 GMT
Would the Duppers take a lead from the Sinners and abstain from taking their seats in the Dail? "Duppers"? I doubt if they would be prodded or duped into such a féint like that. Even if they thought it was a good tactic, they wouldn't do it anyway because it would be an obvious example of copycat ting their opponents. I though Duppers and Sinners was common parlance. DUP(pers) and SINN(fein)ERS. Maybe I'm the only one that watches the Blame Game. |
|
|
|
Post by Ghyl Tarvoke on Apr 3, 2017 18:14:24 GMT
Not familiar with 'Duppers' unless you pronounce it DEE-YEW-PEE-ers which is uncommon, but not unheard of. Never heard of 'Duhp-puhrrs'
|
|
johnloony
Conservative
Posts: 24,536
Member is Online
|
Post by johnloony on Apr 4, 2017 4:09:42 GMT
"Duppers"? I doubt if they would be prodded or duped into such a féint like that. Even if they thought it was a good tactic, they wouldn't do it anyway because it would be an obvious example of copycatting their opponents. I though Duppers and Sinners was common parlance. DUP(pers) and SINN(fein)ERS. Maybe I'm the only one that watches the Blame Game. "Shinners" (meaning Sinn Féin supporters) is common, but nobody has ever used the term "Duppers" before. |
|
