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Post by greenhert on Mar 7, 2017 16:11:44 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 16:32:34 GMT
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joefaekemlin
SNP
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Post by joefaekemlin on Mar 7, 2017 22:59:33 GMT
The UK would gleefully accept the result, less sure about the RoI but its arguably politically imperative. Of course in the exercise of democracy, it would be equally imperative to accept the subsequent vote of two counties to leave the RoI, probably before they had joined it. Eh? Which two counties did you have in mind? |
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joefaekemlin
SNP
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Post by joefaekemlin on Mar 7, 2017 23:10:35 GMT
How about a federal Ireland with a parliament for each province? Would be interesting to see how the DUP fared in a 9 county Ulster.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Mar 7, 2017 23:21:06 GMT
Éire Nua anyone?
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Mar 8, 2017 0:41:51 GMT
How about a federal Ireland with a parliament for each province? Would be interesting to see how the DUP fared in a 9 county Ulster. I proposed something similar about a year ago from the position of knowning absolutely nothing about Irish local government.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2017 0:42:13 GMT
How about a federal Ireland with a parliament for each province? Would be interesting to see how the DUP fared in a 9 county Ulster. The "provinces" are post-mediaeval confections which have never had any governmental function or been a focus of identity. People in Ireland identify with their localities and, for some purposes, their counties. Northern Ireland is the only part of Ireland with something of a regional identity, which is because it is actually distinct in cultural, religious and ethnic terms. |
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iain
Lib Dem
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Post by iain on Mar 8, 2017 0:45:20 GMT
The UK would gleefully accept the result, less sure about the RoI but its arguably politically imperative. Of course in the exercise of democracy, it would be equally imperative to accept the subsequent vote of two counties to leave the RoI, probably before they had joined it. Eh? Which two counties did you have in mind? Antrim and Down, I would assume. |
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joefaekemlin
SNP
I have been in or around the SNP since I was at primary school and a member since 1980
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Post by joefaekemlin on Mar 8, 2017 1:39:31 GMT
How about a federal Ireland with a parliament for each province? Would be interesting to see how the DUP fared in a 9 county Ulster. I proposed something similar about a year ago from the position of knowning absolutely nothing about Irish local government. Its something I thought about around the time of the Scottish Independence referendum when Gordon Brown was banging on about "near federalism". |
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joefaekemlin
SNP
I have been in or around the SNP since I was at primary school and a member since 1980
Posts: 147
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Post by joefaekemlin on Mar 8, 2017 1:43:14 GMT
How about a federal Ireland with a parliament for each province? Would be interesting to see how the DUP fared in a 9 county Ulster. The "provinces" are post-mediaeval confections which have never had any governmental function or been a focus of identity. People in Ireland identify with their localities and, for some purposes, their counties. Northern Ireland is the only part of Ireland with something of a regional identity, which is because it is actually distinct in cultural, religious and ethnic terms. Good luck telling that to the GAA, which is organised around counties and provinces, or the Pro rugby teams in Ireland. By distinct I presume you mean the Ulster-Scots rather than the Gaels? |
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Mar 8, 2017 3:57:23 GMT
The "provinces" are post-mediaeval confections which have never had any governmental function or been a focus of identity. Good luck telling that to the GAA, which is organised around counties and provinces, or the Pro rugby teams in Ireland. Yeah, sport came to mind when I read the 'focus of identity' comment too. That's still not a sufficient basis for a federal Ireland, though. |
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joefaekemlin
SNP
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Post by joefaekemlin on Mar 8, 2017 14:45:12 GMT
Good luck telling that to the GAA, which is organised around counties and provinces, or the Pro rugby teams in Ireland. Yeah, sport came to mind when I read the 'focus of identity' comment too. That's still not a sufficient basis for a federal Ireland, though. Agreed. But a federal Ireland would be one way of accommodating the abominable no men just as devolution has proved on mainland Britain? |
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obsie
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Post by obsie on Mar 8, 2017 16:53:11 GMT
A high nationalist turnout in a single election doesn't wipe away the pro-UK majority in Northern Ireland. It's not actually a particularly high nationalist turnout; it's a case of nationalist turnout returning to be level - more or less - with unionist turnout after a period of decline. The underlying demographics are shifting and will continue to shift, but if Unionism wants to retreat to a majoritarian, exclusive mindset it will find that majority slipping away. |
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obsie
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Post by obsie on Mar 8, 2017 16:59:01 GMT
How about a federal Ireland with a parliament for each province? Would be interesting to see how the DUP fared in a 9 county Ulster. The "provinces" are post-mediaeval confections which have never had any governmental function or been a focus of identity. People in Ireland identify with their localities and, for some purposes, their counties. Northern Ireland is the only part of Ireland with something of a regional identity, which is because it is actually distinct in cultural, religious and ethnic terms. My euro-worth as someone who was born in and lives in Ireland: The provinces have been around for longer than that, although some counties (Clare, Cavan, Louth, Longford) were moved around between provinces in the 16th centuries. People in Ireland tend to identify with their localities and their counties before they identify with the provinces, but I would have said that Ulster (9 counties) and Connacht have pretty strong identities, with Munster weaker and Leinster (dominated by Dublin and not otherwise all that cohesive) bringing up the rear. |
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joefaekemlin
SNP
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Post by joefaekemlin on Mar 8, 2017 18:54:53 GMT
The "provinces" are post-mediaeval confections which have never had any governmental function or been a focus of identity. People in Ireland identify with their localities and, for some purposes, their counties. Northern Ireland is the only part of Ireland with something of a regional identity, which is because it is actually distinct in cultural, religious and ethnic terms. My euro-worth as someone who was born in and lives in Ireland: The provinces have been around for longer than that, although some counties (Clare, Cavan, Louth, Longford) were moved around between provinces in the 16th centuries. People in Ireland tend to identify with their localities and their counties before they identify with the provinces, but I would have said that Ulster (9 counties) and Connacht have pretty strong identities, with Munster weaker and Leinster (dominated by Dublin and not otherwise all that cohesive) bringing up the rear. And as someone who lives there, your thoughts on a federal Ireland to replace the republic and the statelet? |
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joefaekemlin
SNP
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Post by joefaekemlin on Mar 8, 2017 18:57:04 GMT
A high nationalist turnout in a single election doesn't wipe away the pro-UK majority in Northern Ireland. Its only a matter of time. The nats are outbreeding the unionists. Lol |
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joefaekemlin
SNP
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Post by joefaekemlin on Mar 8, 2017 19:12:00 GMT
A high nationalist turnout in a single election doesn't wipe away the pro-UK majority in Northern Ireland. It's not actually a particularly high nationalist turnout; it's a case of nationalist turnout returning to be level - more or less - with unionist turnout after a period of decline. The underlying demographics are shifting and will continue to shift, but if Unionism wants to retreat to a majoritarian, exclusive mindset it will find that majority slipping away. As we would say in Falkirk "the unionists are aw ower the place". That is to say they are arguing amongst themselves, with the DUP becoming particularly reactionary and setn in the dark ages never mind 1690. Sinn Fein has Arlene Foster to thank as much as anyone else for thir current high ratings. |
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joefaekemlin
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Post by joefaekemlin on Mar 8, 2017 19:19:41 GMT
SF, Green and PBP are all all island parties anyway. SDLP would officially merge with labour but several members would probably end up in FF Alliance would probably have to merge with one of the smaller parties to remain viable Unionists would still be a substantial block and potential junior partner in any govenrment allowing them all sorts of concessions. For those who think this is all pie in the sky stuff the latest lucid talk poll has unity at 44% (thats before the latest RHI farce came to a head) and this is a Lucid talk poll ie the same people that regularly poll support for unity at around 10-20% but I guess most people didnt give a flying f about N.Ireland when voting for Brexit. lucidtalk.co.uk/news/219-lt-december-2016-ni-wide-tracker-pollPs - repartition is a non-starter. Firstly why make the same mistake all over again and secondly how exactly is the new Antrim/Down going to work now that Belfast city itself has more Nationalist elected representatives than Unionist Alliance see themselves as the LibDems of NI so would prob survive in that respect? |
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joefaekemlin
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Post by joefaekemlin on Mar 8, 2017 19:29:08 GMT
Addressing this idiotic nationalist/green fantasy: It's never going to happen. The last comprehensive opinion poll in Northern Ireland from Ipsos Mori in 2013 found overwhelming support in favour of Northern Ireland remaining a part of the union in all areas of Northern Ireland (even in Londonderry where 55% of respondents stated they would vote for Northern Ireland to remain a part of the United Kingdom against 23% opting to join the Republic of Ireland). Support for the union is particularly high among younger voters (65% remain, 16% leave among 18-24 year olds) and even ahead among Roman Catholic voters according to the poll (38% remain to 35% leave). People don't want second troubles! And even if it did happen, which it won't, it's likely that Roman Catholic voters would boycott the vote as they did 1973 when 98.9% voted for Northern Ireland to remain a part of the United Kingdom. And even if it did happen with a 52% leave vote, it's probable that the counties of Antrim and Down would refuse to leave the United Kingdom. The process would not be peaceful. And it's never going to happen. Or maybe the English get the chance to vote on whether or not to leave the Union... That would be no bad thing given the result of the EU referendum. But where then for the UNITED KINGDOM Independence Party? |
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Mar 8, 2017 19:30:50 GMT
I think those here who sympathise with Unionism might consider pausing and wondering why an increasingly large minority of Protestants are not voting for big U Unionism at all. And perhaps might also want to reflect on why Catholic turnout jumped this year.
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