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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Feb 11, 2017 20:41:48 GMT
You even hear it from MPs who grew up in the south - either it's completely elided over, or it's suggested that the way to win votes there is to appeal to people who live in Wandsworth (Liz Kendall is a decent example, though to be fair I'm hard-pressed to think of reasons why Watford isn't part of London).
I suspect it's partly because those people who come from there and end up high up in Labour politics haven't generally lived there since they were 18, or since they finished uni at the outside. They don't tend to have an enormous knowledge of the politics of their home area, and they inculcate the idea that it's hopeless for Labour and make it part of their political self-identity.
And of course, part of the reason they haven't lived there since they were children is because if you're a southern graduate, you generally move to London to get a job. The peripherality of the non-London south is self-reinforcing.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Feb 11, 2017 20:53:52 GMT
You even hear it from MPs who grew up in the south - either it's completely elided over, or it's suggested that the way to win votes there is to appeal to people who live in Wandsworth (Liz Kendall is a decent example, though to be fair I'm hard-pressed to think of reasons why Watford isn't part of London). I suspect it's partly because those people who come from there and end up high up in Labour politics haven't generally lived there since they were 18, or since they finished uni at the outside. They don't tend to have an enormous knowledge of the politics of their home area, and they inculcate the idea that it's hopeless for Labour and make it part of their political self-identity. And of course, part of the reason they haven't lived there since they were children is because if you're a southern graduate, you generally move to London to get a job. The peripherality of the non-London south is self-reinforcing. Coincidentally Liz Kendall was 18 the last time Labour won seats in the Abbots Langley area |
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Feb 12, 2017 9:27:30 GMT
There is a definite tendency in the north to merge the south into one: when I lived in Sheffield, I had several people say to me (for example) 'I was down in your neck of the woods at the weekend. Went to Bristol' or 'You're from near Portsmouth, how long does it take to get there from London?'. I identify as a Plymothian so it was equivalent of me saying 'aah, you're from Sheffield, what's Middlesbrough like for a night out?'.
This may be a lack of awareness about geography and so on, but it comes across quite strongly that 'the south' is basically London.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2017 13:24:59 GMT
There is a definite tendency in the north to merge the south into one: when I lived in Sheffield, I had several people say to me (for example) 'I was down in your neck of the woods at the weekend. Went to Bristol' or 'You're from near Portsmouth, how long does it take to get there from London?'. I identify as a Plymothian so it was equivalent of me saying 'aah, you're from Sheffield, what's Middlesbrough like for a night out?'. This may be a lack of awareness about geography and so on, but it comes across quite strongly that 'the south' is basically London. Simples - Scone as in non = T'North Scone as in tone = T'South |
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Post by carlton43 on Feb 12, 2017 13:53:06 GMT
There is a definite tendency in the north to merge the south into one: when I lived in Sheffield, I had several people say to me (for example) 'I was down in your neck of the woods at the weekend. Went to Bristol' or 'You're from near Portsmouth, how long does it take to get there from London?'. I identify as a Plymothian so it was equivalent of me saying 'aah, you're from Sheffield, what's Middlesbrough like for a night out?'. This may be a lack of awareness about geography and so on, but it comes across quite strongly that 'the south' is basically London. Simples - Scone as in non = T'North Scone as in tone = T'South I use both with the first for the less deep soda variety and the second for the deep, yellow and fruity ones. |
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johnloony
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Post by johnloony on Feb 12, 2017 13:57:31 GMT
There is a definite tendency in the north to merge the south into one: when I lived in Sheffield, I had several people say to me (for example) 'I was down in your neck of the woods at the weekend. Went to Bristol' or 'You're from near Portsmouth, how long does it take to get there from London?'. I identify as a Plymothian so it was equivalent of me saying 'aah, you're from Sheffield, what's Middlesbrough like for a night out?'. This may be a lack of awareness about geography and so on, but it comes across quite strongly that 'the south' is basically London. Simples - Scone as in non = T'North Scone as in tone = T'South You are suffering from an incorrectlyism. I am a southerner, and I have always pronounced "scone" to rhyme with "gone". |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2017 14:03:01 GMT
Simples - Scone as in non = T'North Scone as in tone = T'South You are suffering from an incorrectlyism. I am a southerner, and I have always pronounced "scone" to rhyme with "gone". The benefits of a superior education have not been wasted then |
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Post by finsobruce on Feb 12, 2017 14:22:39 GMT
There is a definite tendency in the north to merge the south into one: when I lived in Sheffield, I had several people say to me (for example) 'I was down in your neck of the woods at the weekend. Went to Bristol' or 'You're from near Portsmouth, how long does it take to get there from London?'. I identify as a Plymothian so it was equivalent of me saying 'aah, you're from Sheffield, what's Middlesbrough like for a night out?'. This may be a lack of awareness about geography and so on, but it comes across quite strongly that 'the south' is basically London. Simples - Scone as in non = T'North Scone as in tone = T'South Albert Einstein discusses the matter with the Queen. sort of. |
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iain
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Post by iain on Feb 12, 2017 16:01:09 GMT
There is a definite tendency in the north to merge the south into one: when I lived in Sheffield, I had several people say to me (for example) 'I was down in your neck of the woods at the weekend. Went to Bristol' or 'You're from near Portsmouth, how long does it take to get there from London?'. I identify as a Plymothian so it was equivalent of me saying 'aah, you're from Sheffield, what's Middlesbrough like for a night out?'. This may be a lack of awareness about geography and so on, but it comes across quite strongly that 'the south' is basically London. Simples - Scone as in non = T'North Scone as in tone = T'South Unlike the grass as in mass / father or the pronunciations of eg bun, the scone debate seems independent of where you're from. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2017 16:08:24 GMT
When talking to the landlady of a Central London pub, about five or so years ago now, I learned that "I'm from Preston in Lancashire" was enough to prompt her recollection of going on holiday "near to there..... The Peak District"
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Post by froome on Feb 12, 2017 16:41:47 GMT
Simples - Scone as in non = T'North Scone as in tone = T'South You are suffering from an incorrectlyism. I am a southerner, and I have always pronounced "scone" to rhyme with "gone". As do I. This idea of different pronunciations of scone is a myth, everybody I know down here pronounces it to rhyme with gone. |
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Post by No Offence Alan on Feb 12, 2017 16:43:52 GMT
Otherwise the joke "What's the fastest cake in the world? Scone!" wouldn't work.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2017 17:33:50 GMT
I'm gonna build a wall, #fakenews All these Sconies pretending to be scawnies  |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Feb 12, 2017 17:59:09 GMT
Excellent use of "Poujadiste" there, East Anglian Lefty, I'm surprised the word isn't more frequently used in these days. I think you're onto something. I was struck by McDonnell's recent comments about investing in the north of England. Nothing wrong per se but too often the impression given is that England consist of London and The North, and if you wan't to redress the balance between London and the rest that means the North. It's not surprising that the LDs do well in the South-West and in parts of Norfolk. I suspect it is partly a Northern thing. When talking to northerners (and Scots, for that matter) I often get the impression that they think absolutely everyone in the south lives in London or at very least the Home Counties and that, say, Portsmouth is an extension of Croydon. And of course all Londoners have a tendency to think the world ends at the M25. Maybe that has fed through into the PLP due to the large number MPs from those areas and become slightly self-perpetuating, despite the long Labour hsitory in palces such as Plymouth and parts of East Anglia? That's a ridiculous notion. It's an extension of Guildford. Croydon's LBSCR. |
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Feb 12, 2017 18:04:20 GMT
When talking to the landlady of a Central London pub, about five or so years ago now, I learned that "I'm from Preston in Lancashire" was enough to prompt her recollection of going on holiday "near to there..... The Peak District" You think this says a lot about people Down South, actually it mostly speaks of your own bizarre parochialist myopia. Preston is about as close to the Peak District as Shrewsbury is to Birmingham: i.e. not exactly next door but undeniably near. You're the kind of person who would once have described the next parish as 'abroad'. |
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Feb 13, 2017 11:19:44 GMT
When talking to the landlady of a Central London pub, about five or so years ago now, I learned that "I'm from Preston in Lancashire" was enough to prompt her recollection of going on holiday "near to there..... The Peak District" You think this says a lot about people Down South, actually it mostly speaks of your own bizarre parochialist myopia. Preston is about as close to the Peak District as Shrewsbury is to Birmingham: i.e. not exactly next door but undeniably near. You're the kind of person who would once have described the next parish as 'abroad'. This may be the first time I've liked one of your posts. |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Feb 13, 2017 21:17:52 GMT
When talking to the landlady of a Central London pub, about five or so years ago now, I learned that "I'm from Preston in Lancashire" was enough to prompt her recollection of going on holiday "near to there..... The Peak District" You think this says a lot about people Down South, actually it mostly speaks of your own bizarre parochialist myopia. Preston is about as close to the Peak District as Shrewsbury is to Birmingham: i.e. not exactly next door but undeniably near. You're the kind of person who would once have described the next parish as 'abroad'. Also, a fair amount of people who are near to neither tend to confuse the Peak and the Lake districts. And road signs and railway stations will lead you to believe that Preston is fairly close to the latter. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2017 21:25:59 GMT
I say scone as in "loan", and I am certainly not from the "sarf".
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Feb 13, 2017 21:38:38 GMT
Which undermines the suggestion that I was going to make, which is that the division is more about social class (actual or self-perceived) than region.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2017 22:22:15 GMT
I say scone as in "loan", and I am certainly not from the "sarf". I do too. |
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