neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Jan 3, 2021 20:41:07 GMT
I was delighted to vote against this lousy deal last night together with 80 colleagues and some others. Unlike some we do not fall into the fallacy that there are only ever two choices! I appreciate that others have asked, but what were your choices here? Vote for the deal, or vote against (or abstain). Ultimately, you had a binary choice. What were the other choices in this particular instance?
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Jack
Reform Party
Posts: 8,133
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Post by Jack on Jan 3, 2021 23:27:10 GMT
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Post by Merseymike on Jan 3, 2021 23:44:11 GMT
I actually want to be an Independent which is a bit more positive than non-aligned. BossMan has been instructed! I still regard myself as a red, but I've recognised that I'm more libertarian than the left have shown themselves to be over the past year.
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Post by bjornhattan on Jan 3, 2021 23:49:14 GMT
I actually want to be an Independent which is a bit more positive than non-aligned. BossMan has been instructed! I still regard myself as a red, but I've recognised that I'm more libertarian than the left have shown themselves to be over the past year. I've just made it so you're in the independent "group", and should be able to have that displayed. You might need to go into your profile, then "Edit Profile", then "Settings", and finally "Display Group" to change that over though.
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Post by manchesterman on Jan 4, 2021 0:04:20 GMT
Merseymike - a TIG ..who'd have thunk it?
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cj
Socialist
These fragments I have shored against my ruins
Posts: 3,282
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Post by cj on Jan 4, 2021 1:35:24 GMT
I actually want to be an Independent which is a bit more positive than non-aligned. BossMan has been instructed! I still regard myself as a red, but I've recognised that I'm more libertarian than the left have shown themselves to be over the past year. I've just made it so you're in the independent "group", and should be able to have that displayed. You might need to go into your profile, then "Edit Profile", then "Settings", and finally "Display Group" to change that over though. Could someone administratorial sort out the socialist room it still shows Merseymike as admin, it was bad enough having your posts amended him when he was a socialist but its a bit too rich if he's now able to do it as a 'libertarian!
hot bed of posting that it is. I'm not sure how the other socialists feel but you can close it as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 4, 2021 2:01:37 GMT
I actually want to be an Independent which is a bit more positive than non-aligned. BossMan has been instructed! I still regard myself as a red, but I've recognised that I'm more libertarian than the left have shown themselves to be over the past year. "Top POUM spokesman..."!
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 14,585
Member is Online
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Post by john07 on Jan 4, 2021 2:07:18 GMT
I actually want to be an Independent which is a bit more positive than non-aligned. BossMan has been instructed! I still regard myself as a red, but I've recognised that I'm more libertarian than the left have shown themselves to be over the past year. So how long before you sign up with Farage?
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Post by manchesterman on Jan 4, 2021 3:12:40 GMT
I've just made it so you're in the independent "group", and should be able to have that displayed. You might need to go into your profile, then "Edit Profile", then "Settings", and finally "Display Group" to change that over though. Could someone administratorial sort out the socialist room it still shows Merseymike as admin, it was bad enough having your posts amended him when he was a socialist but its a bit too rich if he's now able to do it as a 'libertarian!
hot bed of posting that it is. I'm not sure how the other socialists feel but you can close it as far as I'm concerned.
As a libertarian, surely he shouldnt be amending anybody's posts
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Post by Merseymike on Jan 4, 2021 7:02:29 GMT
I'm more socially and personally libertarian than the Left , but that would hardly be difficult at the moment, given the relaxed approach towards authoritarianism. That extends neither to economics nor the anti "woke" obsessions displayed by some who would adopt that label, which I wouldn't as a political descriptor given it sometimes includes those connotations.
I recall one of the political attitudes quizzes had libertarian left as a category, and it was certainly used in the days of the GLC. The term may not be likely to be reused, but the concern with the authoritarian drift certainly exists among a group of people.
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Post by relique on Jan 4, 2021 9:12:16 GMT
I've just made it so you're in the independent "group", and should be able to have that displayed. You might need to go into your profile, then "Edit Profile", then "Settings", and finally "Display Group" to change that over though. Could someone administratorial sort out the socialist room it still shows Merseymike as admin, it was bad enough having your posts amended him when he was a socialist but its a bit too rich if he's now able to do it as a 'libertarian!
hot bed of posting that it is. I'm not sure how the other socialists feel but you can close it as far as I'm concerned.
Does the socialist label stand for some kind of trotskyst small (tautology here) party ? I'm a french socialist but I know that in some countries "socialist" stands for people advocating for a specific socialist internationale. Is it the case here ?
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Post by matureleft on Jan 4, 2021 9:44:29 GMT
I'm more socially and personally libertarian than the Left , but that would hardly be difficult at the moment, given the relaxed approach towards authoritarianism. That extends neither to economics nor the anti "woke" obsessions displayed by some who would adopt that label, which I wouldn't as a political descriptor given it sometimes includes those connotations. I recall one of the political attitudes quizzes had libertarian left as a category, and it was certainly used in the days of the GLC. The term may not be likely to be reused, but the concern with the authoritarian drift certainly exists among a group of people. A libertarian with a strong centralist tendency and with a belief that the leader of any party should have authority to impose his/her will. Most libertarians, even those of the left, are sceptical of central state authority and power. Your scepticism seems confined to one use of that power. There's some work to be done on "coherence", as you say?
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,636
Member is Online
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Post by The Bishop on Jan 4, 2021 9:59:08 GMT
Could someone administratorial sort out the socialist room it still shows Merseymike as admin, it was bad enough having your posts amended him when he was a socialist but its a bit too rich if he's now able to do it as a 'libertarian! hot bed of posting that it is. I'm not sure how the other socialists feel but you can close it as far as I'm concerned.
Does the socialist label stand for some kind of trotskyst small (tautology here) party ? I'm a french socialist but I know that in some countries "socialist" stands for people advocating for a specific socialist internationale. Is it the case here ? From your posts here I think you would certainly fit into the "Socialist" category if that is what you wanted.
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Post by Merseymike on Jan 4, 2021 10:23:43 GMT
I'm more socially and personally libertarian than the Left , but that would hardly be difficult at the moment, given the relaxed approach towards authoritarianism. That extends neither to economics nor the anti "woke" obsessions displayed by some who would adopt that label, which I wouldn't as a political descriptor given it sometimes includes those connotations. I recall one of the political attitudes quizzes had libertarian left as a category, and it was certainly used in the days of the GLC. The term may not be likely to be reused, but the concern with the authoritarian drift certainly exists among a group of people. A libertarian with a strong centralist tendency and with a belief that the leader of any party should have authority to impose his/her will. Most libertarians, even those of the left, are sceptical of central state authority and power. Your scepticism seems confined to one use of that power. There's some work to be done on "coherence", as you say? No, just you are so very narrow and fixed in your old fashioned traditional tribal politics. The point is that I'm not a libertarian as I very clearly expressed in that post above..."not a political descriptor I would use" so maybe you could read properly before writing another such petulant post. Labourists really aren't good at dealing with those who abandon the tribe ....
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Post by matureleft on Jan 4, 2021 10:56:25 GMT
A libertarian with a strong centralist tendency and with a belief that the leader of any party should have authority to impose his/her will. Most libertarians, even those of the left, are sceptical of central state authority and power. Your scepticism seems confined to one use of that power. There's some work to be done on "coherence", as you say? No, just you are so very narrow and fixed in your old fashioned traditional tribal politics. The point is that I'm not a libertarian as I very clearly expressed in that post above..."not a political descriptor I would use" so maybe you could read properly before writing another such petulant post. Labourists really aren't good at dealing with those who abandon the tribe .... "Protest too much?".
Yes, it wasn't "a political descriptor [you] would use". But it's a personal description you appear to apply to yourself. There's nothing to be ashamed of in having inconsistent opinions. Most people have (including me)! We work our way through life and accumulate experiences that we then fit with the ideology we have (or we change the ideology). And the fit isn't always neat. I had much more consistent views when I was in my early 20s and expressed them with great clarity. Nowadays many of my views are carefully qualified, changing me from a powerful orator when young to someone with an entirely different and more complex speaking style. "Coherence" (in politics) as you put it is pretty hard to achieve. That's one reason why most gravitate toward fairly pragmatic, experiential political philosophies.
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Post by Merseymike on Jan 4, 2021 11:08:00 GMT
No, just you are so very narrow and fixed in your old fashioned traditional tribal politics. The point is that I'm not a libertarian as I very clearly expressed in that post above..."not a political descriptor I would use" so maybe you could read properly before writing another such petulant post. Labourists really aren't good at dealing with those who abandon the tribe .... "Protest too much?".
Yes, it wasn't "a political descriptor [you] would use". But it's a personal description you appear to apply to yourself. There's nothing to be ashamed of in having inconsistent opinions. Most people have (including me)! We work our way through life and accumulate experiences that we then fit with the ideology we have (or we change the ideology). And the fit isn't always neat. I had much more consistent views when I was in my early 20s and expressed them with great clarity. Nowadays many of my views are carefully qualified, changing me from a powerful orator when young to someone with an entirely different and more complex speaking style. "Coherence" (in politics) as you put it is pretty hard to achieve. That's one reason why most gravitate toward fairly pragmatic, experiential political philosophies.Β No. Read again. I deliberately said I don't apply it to myself. The political descriptor comment was in relation to my own politics.
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Post by relique on Jan 4, 2021 11:38:30 GMT
Does the socialist label stand for some kind of trotskyst small (tautology here) party ? I'm a french socialist but I know that in some countries "socialist" stands for people advocating for a specific socialist internationale. Is it the case here ? From your posts here I think you would certainly fit into the "Socialist" category if that is what you wanted. Thanks. I wanted some clarification as there is (or was, I think it was renamed Solidarity and then merged with People Before Profit) a Socialist Party in Ireland (including the north I think) and I think it is a clear trotskyst party. As I'm really not close politically to them, I was wondering if here, the label "socialist" refered to this party (or a similar one in Great Britain).
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Post by π΄ββ οΈ Neath West π΄ββ οΈ on Jan 4, 2021 11:41:42 GMT
I actually want to be an Independent which is a bit more positive than non-aligned. BossMan has been instructed! I still regard myself as a red, but I've recognised that I'm more libertarian than the left have shown themselves to be over the past year. I've just made it so you're in the independent "group", Whatever they're called this week...
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Post by finsobruce on Jan 4, 2021 11:47:39 GMT
From your posts here I think you would certainly fit into the "Socialist" category if that is what you wanted. Thanks. I wanted some clarification as there is (or was, I think it was renamed Solidarity and then merged with People Before Profit) a Socialist Party in Ireland (including the north I think) and I think it is a clear trotskyst party. As I'm really not close politically to them, I was wondering if here, the label "socialist" refered to this party (or a similar one in Great Britain). The Socialist party in Ireland stood under the label People Before Profit, under which label they had three TD's elected. Although they had a separate genesis they are the equivalent of the Socialist Party in the United Kingdom, formerly the Militant Tendency, formerly the Revolutionary Socialist League etc, etc. Solidarity was Tommy Sheridan's party in Scotland, although the name has been used by lots of people over the years.
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Post by No Offence Alan on Jan 4, 2021 11:50:00 GMT
No, just you are so very narrow and fixed in your old fashioned traditional tribal politics. The point is that I'm not a libertarian as I very clearly expressed in that post above..."not a political descriptor I would use" so maybe you could read properly before writing another such petulant post. Labourists really aren't good at dealing with those who abandon the tribe .... "Protest too much?".
Yes, it wasn't "a political descriptor [you] would use". But it's a personal description you appear to apply to yourself. There's nothing to be ashamed of in having inconsistent opinions. Most people have (including me)! We work our way through life and accumulate experiences that we then fit with the ideology we have (or we change the ideology). And the fit isn't always neat. I had much more consistent views when I was in my early 20s and expressed them with great clarity. Nowadays many of my views are carefully qualified, changing me from a powerful orator when young to someone with an entirely different and more complex speaking style. "Coherence" (in politics) as you put it is pretty hard to achieve. That's one reason why most gravitate toward fairly pragmatic, experiential political philosophies. I agree, as an example, I am currently trying to come up with a "coherent" rationale for my opposition to faith schools but my support for Gaelic-medium schools.
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