Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2020 17:11:43 GMT
Personally i think a centre left brexit outfit would be mote successful. Before Brexit Party there was interesting amount of traction that the SDP were getting. Nothing on the same level but there membership was starting spike and there was the MEP defection. Would have been interesting to see the Peterborough by election had Brexit party never existed given thats where Paul Flynn had set up his offices as MEP. SDP probably would have lost but got shy of 20% like UKIP in early by elections in 2010-2015
|
|
pl
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,563
|
Post by pl on Jun 9, 2020 17:17:49 GMT
Personally i think a centre left brexit outfit would be mote successful. Before Brexit Party there was interesting amount of traction that the SDP were getting. Nothing on the same level but there membership was starting spike and there was the MEP defection. Would have been interesting to see the Peterborough by election had Brexit party never existed given thats where Paul Flynn had set up his offices as MEP. SDP probably would have lost but got shy of 20% like UKIP in early by elections in 2010-2015 It would have had to be a fairly patriotic party, strong on immigration too. Basically the old Labour right, and not "metropolitan" sounding.
|
|
|
Post by bluelabour on Jun 9, 2020 17:31:48 GMT
Personally i think a centre left brexit outfit would be mote successful. Before Brexit Party there was interesting amount of traction that the SDP were getting. Nothing on the same level but there membership was starting spike and there was the MEP defection. Would have been interesting to see the Peterborough by election had Brexit party never existed given thats where Paul Flynn had set up his offices as MEP. SDP probably would have lost but got shy of 20% like UKIP in early by elections in 2010-2015 This is really one for the Alternate History thread, but if the Brexit Party had never existed and in its place the SDP gained a lot of traction as a pro-Brexit alternative to the Conservatives, it would've been much more successful defeating Labour in seats like Barnsley, Sunderland, Hull etc. That said, I can't think of a left-wing Eurosceptic figure on par with Farage in terms of name recognition.
|
|
|
Post by Merseymike on Jun 9, 2020 17:46:48 GMT
Personally i think a centre left brexit outfit would be mote successful. Before Brexit Party there was interesting amount of traction that the SDP were getting. Nothing on the same level but there membership was starting spike and there was the MEP defection. Would have been interesting to see the Peterborough by election had Brexit party never existed given thats where Paul Flynn had set up his offices as MEP. SDP probably would have lost but got shy of 20% like UKIP in early by elections in 2010-2015 This is really one for the Alternate History thread, but if the Brexit Party had never existed and in its place the SDP gained a lot of traction as a pro-Brexit alternative to the Conservatives, it would've been much more successful defeating Labour in seats like Barnsley, Sunderland, Hull etc. That said, I can't think of a left-wing Eurosceptic figure on par with Farage in terms of name recognition. The best known is George Galloway. Mmmmmmm.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2020 17:50:53 GMT
Personally i think a centre left brexit outfit would be mote successful. Before Brexit Party there was interesting amount of traction that the SDP were getting. Nothing on the same level but there membership was starting spike and there was the MEP defection. Would have been interesting to see the Peterborough by election had Brexit party never existed given thats where Paul Flynn had set up his offices as MEP. SDP probably would have lost but got shy of 20% like UKIP in early by elections in 2010-2015 This is really one for the Alternate History thread, but if the Brexit Party had never existed and in its place the SDP gained a lot of traction as a pro-Brexit alternative to the Conservatives, it would've been much more successful defeating Labour in seats like Barnsley, Sunderland, Hull etc. That said, I can't think of a left-wing Eurosceptic figure on par with Farage in terms of name recognition. aye given how close brexit were in some of those seats as well we could have been looking at one or two SDP MPs. It is difficult to think of anyone on the same level as farage. Perhaps the SDP would have appealed to Ian Austin, John Mann, Guiesla Stuart, Kate Hoey, John Woodcock and Ivan Lewis. There were rumours that Farage was trying to court Ian Austin et al in 2014
|
|
|
Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 9, 2020 17:51:44 GMT
Personally i think a centre left brexit outfit would be mote successful. Before Brexit Party there was interesting amount of traction that the SDP were getting. Nothing on the same level but there membership was starting spike and there was the MEP defection. Would have been interesting to see the Peterborough by election had Brexit party never existed given thats where Paul Flynn had set up his offices as MEP. SDP probably would have lost but got shy of 20% like UKIP in early by elections in 2010-2015 Even more interesting if he'd stood in the Newport West by-election
|
|
carlton43
Non-Aligned
Posts: 48,480
Member is Online
|
Post by carlton43 on Jun 9, 2020 21:36:52 GMT
I've always felt a fairly strong affinity with the FDP, but they've always been too pro-EU for my liking. Even relative to the other parties in Germany they seem very Europhile! Indeed, the rampant europhillia would be a major sticking point. But, to be frank the difference between the CDU and FDP on this is only marginal in the grand scheme of things. And I don't think many mainstream Conservatives would very much like the AfD - unless euroscepticism was their only issue. I most certainly would and have said so many times in these threads. I have hoped for a AfGB.
|
|
pl
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,563
|
Post by pl on Jun 9, 2020 21:58:50 GMT
Indeed, the rampant europhillia would be a major sticking point. But, to be frank the difference between the CDU and FDP on this is only marginal in the grand scheme of things. And I don't think many mainstream Conservatives would very much like the AfD - unless euroscepticism was their only issue. I most certainly would and have said so many times in these threads. I have hoped for a AfGB. Carlton - I ask this without malice, but are you a mainstream Conservative (as per my previous post)? You’ve left the party twice in recent years. I’d be interested in how you define yourself politically.
|
|
carlton43
Non-Aligned
Posts: 48,480
Member is Online
|
Post by carlton43 on Jun 9, 2020 22:11:14 GMT
I most certainly would and have said so many times in these threads. I have hoped for a AfGB. Carlton - I ask this without malice, but are you a mainstream Conservative (as per my previous post)? You’ve left the party twice in recent years. I’d be interested in how you define yourself politically. I am a private individual who is interested in theoretical and philosophical politics and psephology. I am not a very tribal Conservative but was once decades ago. I vote in the hope of making changes and thus I vote for the occasion and the policy. I have no loyalty at all to the present Conservative Party as represented in the HOC. I disagree with more Conservative Party policy than I agree with. I don't think the Conservative Party is very conservative much of the time and at the moment hardly conservative at all.
|
|
Georg Ebner
Non-Aligned
Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,242
|
Post by Georg Ebner on Jun 10, 2020 16:50:03 GMT
I suppose what distinguishes them is that they are much more free market than social market/Rhineland capitalist/corporatist, which both the other older parties tend towards, with minor differences They are certainly to the Right of much of the CDU Maybe Georg Ebner can tell me if this is common across the German-speaking world, but Germans I know tend to refer to the FDP as being not sozial, meaning (without judgement) that they are at least sceptical of many aspects of the German corporatist regime. Yes, FDP Germany (and SwitzerLand) is clearly more focussed on economical liberalism than a social one (before 1982 this was different, of course). What makes them clearly "unsocial" OutSiders in a country very uncomfortable with any uncomfortable "NeoLiberalism".
|
|
Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,316
|
Post by Tony Otim on Jun 10, 2020 16:56:12 GMT
Is there an anarcho-syndicalist group on the forum? If so, is it my turn to act as executive office this week? This whole forum is an anarcho-syndicalist group, it's just in denial about it...
|
|
mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 22,383
Member is Online
|
Post by mboy on Jun 11, 2020 8:18:30 GMT
pragmaticidealist from Labour to non-aligned? Due to poor Labour reaction to law & order issues?
|
|
|
Post by pragmaticidealist on Jun 11, 2020 8:37:35 GMT
pragmaticidealist from Labour to non-aligned? Due to poor Labour reaction to law & order issues? Not as such. Just not fussed with partisan politics for the time being.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2020 8:42:04 GMT
pragmaticidealist from Labour to non-aligned? Due to poor Labour reaction to law & order issues? Not as such. Just not fussed with partisan politics for the time being. I'm very sorry to lose you
|
|
mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 22,383
Member is Online
|
Post by mboy on Jun 11, 2020 8:45:33 GMT
pragmaticidealist from Labour to non-aligned? Due to poor Labour reaction to law & order issues? Not as such. Just not fussed with partisan politics for the time being. I feel that. I was genuinely hoping that the "end" of Brexit would lead to a general calming of British politics and a return of productive debate, but instead by random event we have Coronavirus and the murder of George Floyd, and incredibly things are even worse than what I thought was already the worst possible state for politics...and it's global too
|
|
|
Post by Merseymike on Jun 11, 2020 8:48:46 GMT
pragmaticidealist from Labour to non-aligned? Due to poor Labour reaction to law & order issues? Not as such. Just not fussed with partisan politics for the time being. Welcome to the wilderness. It has its good points. Like feeling liberated enough not to have to think "should I say this publicly" when you are affiliated to a party. Also I find the current situation odd anyway. No real difference between the two parties on the lockdown. So arguments about odd issues which appear to be taking the place of proper debate. We aren't talking about actual issues of structural racism in the UK, but whether we should pull down statues or take TV programmes off Netflix. Gesture politics personified
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2020 10:15:08 GMT
Not as such. Just not fussed with partisan politics for the time being. I feel that. I was genuinely hoping that the "end" of Brexit would lead to a general calming of British politics and a return of productive debate, but instead by random event we have Coronavirus and the murder of George Floyd, and incredibly things are even worse than what I thought was already the worst possible state for politics...and it's global too I thought the Lib Dems were used to things being as bad as they feared and probably worse in fairness!
|
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,600
|
Post by The Bishop on Jun 11, 2020 10:27:25 GMT
Not as such. Just not fussed with partisan politics for the time being. Welcome to the wilderness. It has its good points. Like feeling liberated enough not to have to think "should I say this publicly" when you are affiliated to a party. Also I find the current situation odd anyway. No real difference between the two parties on the lockdown. So arguments about odd issues which appear to be taking the place of proper debate. We aren't talking about actual issues of structural racism in the UK, but whether we should pull down statues or take TV programmes off Netflix. Gesture politics personified Some are, things like this will always be an excuse to indulge in gesture politics and virtue signalling - but they can also make people genuinely rethink things.
|
|
|
Post by bjornhattan on Jun 11, 2020 10:35:27 GMT
Welcome to the wilderness. It has its good points. Like feeling liberated enough not to have to think "should I say this publicly" when you are affiliated to a party. Also I find the current situation odd anyway. No real difference between the two parties on the lockdown. So arguments about odd issues which appear to be taking the place of proper debate. We aren't talking about actual issues of structural racism in the UK, but whether we should pull down statues or take TV programmes off Netflix. Gesture politics personified Some are, things like this will always be an excuse to indulge in gesture politics and virtue signalling - but they can also make people genuinely rethink things. I don't think anyone is rethinking their views - these events are just entrenching everyone's views.
|
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,600
|
Post by The Bishop on Jun 11, 2020 10:36:18 GMT
Some are, things like this will always be an excuse to indulge in gesture politics and virtue signalling - but they can also make people genuinely rethink things. I don't think anyone is rethinking their views - these events are just entrenching everyone's views. I'm not that pessimistic.
|
|