Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2020 21:57:59 GMT
The gap in the market is surely, to use a German analogy, the spaces that would be occupied by the FDP and/or AfD. Vince Cable was quoted as saying the Lib Dems need to become an FDP like party.
|
|
Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,565
|
Post by Khunanup on Jun 8, 2020 22:34:08 GMT
This might be worth another thread, I do wonder what Farage is going to pitch when Brexit becomes Reform. There is a linear thread of Brexit supporters who were UKIP supporters who were Labour supporters, and these will be in Farage's line of sight. They will be from the "red wall" and beyond, and will have lended their votes to UKIP as a "one off" and maybe never quite returned. My assumption is that Farage truly doesn't want the fringe members of UKIP, the barely disguised BNP types, he wants credible old-school conservatives who can reach the working class voters of the North without veering too far into the zone of the problematic. So some of Daft H'a'porth A'peth A'pith 's wishlist will come true. "Reform" means not just repackaging UKIP or BxP though so that'll be interesting. Its the free market economics which don't seem to fit the rest Old-style conservatism was never that bothered about free markets - they were instinctively protectionist Surely the red wall wants and expects British jobs for British workers? Protectionism, not globalisation. Agree with that. The Conservative Party sees free trade and protectionism as a means to an end depending on circumstances rather than either being an end in itself (thus why for free traders, the party is inherently unreliable, as well as protectionists). With all the other traits mentioned, protectionism as an end in itself would seem to fit much better into this hypothetical party's platform.
|
|
J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 13,719
|
Post by J.G.Harston on Jun 8, 2020 22:45:41 GMT
I sometimes think members of Labour, Lib Dems and Greens don't want to understand that there is a gap in the market for a new party when the Conservatives become Centerist. To me this party would stand on a platform Nationalism Free Market Tax and Benefit Reform Law and Order Vote Reform (against its general inclination) Work hard, keep your cash Be Lazy, be poor. It appeals to many, especially when those seen as feckless are revolting. While initially attractive, I *want* to be lazy, which is why I spend as much time as I can doing any paid work that I can get my hands on so that I can *afford* to be lazy. My aspiration to to be like my father who retired at 60 and has lazed away the last fifteen years lazing around the Lake District and Northumberland.
|
|
|
Post by tonyhill on Jun 9, 2020 5:41:23 GMT
I did start a thread on the prospects for a fourth party some time ago, partly in response to Tony Greaves' article in 'Liberator' (a radical Liberal magazine).
|
|
|
Post by bluelabour on Jun 9, 2020 10:43:02 GMT
Labour to non-aligned (in the context of this forum; I remain a Labour member)
|
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,798
|
Post by The Bishop on Jun 9, 2020 10:48:43 GMT
The gap in the market is surely, to use a German analogy, the spaces that would be occupied by the FDP and/or AfD. Vince Cable was quoted as saying the Lib Dems need to become an FDP like party. Always thought that was Clegg's "big idea"? Well as some wag pointed out, he did a good job of that in terms of popular support at least
|
|
jamie
Top Poster
Posts: 6,892
|
Post by jamie on Jun 9, 2020 11:03:26 GMT
Vince Cable was quoted as saying the Lib Dems need to become an FDP like party. Libertarians who outsource many of their policies to the big donors, and who occasionally make overtures to the radical right? Sounds very much like the currently Lib Dem’s... /s
|
|
Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
Posts: 9,235
|
Post by Chris from Brum on Jun 9, 2020 11:05:34 GMT
Vince Cable was quoted as saying the Lib Dems need to become an FDP like party. Libertarians who outsource many of their policies to the big donors, and who occasionally make overtures to the radical right? Sounds very much like the current Lib Dem’s 😜 Eh? Examples please, or this is bullshit.
|
|
jamie
Top Poster
Posts: 6,892
|
Post by jamie on Jun 9, 2020 11:06:49 GMT
Libertarians who outsource many of their policies to the big donors, and who occasionally make overtures to the radical right? Sounds very much like the current Lib Dem’s 😜 Eh? Examples please, or this is bullshit. Don’t think my sarcasm came across perfectly...
|
|
Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
Posts: 9,235
|
Post by Chris from Brum on Jun 9, 2020 11:07:55 GMT
Eh? Examples please, or this is bullshit. Don’t think my sarcasm came across perfectly... No, probably not.
|
|
|
Post by tonygreaves on Jun 9, 2020 11:08:39 GMT
The FDP nowadays are a fairly rightwing liberal party but they are not a populist Faragist party in any way. Their economic policies are much more free market than the LDs or most of the European Liberal parties but they retain a strong Liberal civil liberties stance. But they are not the party they were under Walter Scheel or even under Genscher.
|
|
Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
Posts: 9,235
|
Post by Chris from Brum on Jun 9, 2020 11:38:23 GMT
The FDP nowadays are a fairly rightwing liberal party but they are not a populist Faragist party in any way. Their economic policies are much more free market than the LDs or most of the European Liberal parties but they retain a strong Liberal civil liberties stance. But they are not the party they were under Walter Scheel or even under Genscher. It does puzzle me when they're described, as they usually are by the BBC and others, as the "pro-business" FDP. As though all other parties are "anti-business". There has to be a better description than that. Mentioning that they're a Liberal party would be a start ...
|
|
|
Post by Merseymike on Jun 9, 2020 12:05:24 GMT
The FDP nowadays are a fairly rightwing liberal party but they are not a populist Faragist party in any way. Their economic policies are much more free market than the LDs or most of the European Liberal parties but they retain a strong Liberal civil liberties stance. But they are not the party they were under Walter Scheel or even under Genscher. It does puzzle me when they're described, as they usually are by the BBC and others, as the "pro-business" FDP. As though all other parties are "anti-business". There has to be a better description than that. Mentioning that they're a Liberal party would be a start ... I suppose what distinguishes them is that they are much more free market than social market/Rhineland capitalist/corporatist, which both the other older parties tend towards, with minor differences They are certainly to the Right of much of the CDU
|
|
jamie
Top Poster
Posts: 6,892
|
Post by jamie on Jun 9, 2020 12:39:48 GMT
It does puzzle me when they're described, as they usually are by the BBC and others, as the "pro-business" FDP. As though all other parties are "anti-business". There has to be a better description than that. Mentioning that they're a Liberal party would be a start ... Calling them liberal would be very misleading for a British/much of the English speaking world audience, as the label would make them sound at least somewhat left leaning which they are obviously not . ‘Pro-business’ isn’t a bad description considering they are free market, close to business interests, and have policies in areas like the environment that are much more geared towards (certain) businesses than would normally be expected of a liberal party eg; the Liberal Democrat’s.
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jun 9, 2020 14:02:20 GMT
It does puzzle me when they're described, as they usually are by the BBC and others, as the "pro-business" FDP. As though all other parties are "anti-business". There has to be a better description than that. Mentioning that they're a Liberal party would be a start ... I suppose what distinguishes them is that they are much more free market than social market/Rhineland capitalist/corporatist, which both the other older parties tend towards, with minor differences They are certainly to the Right of much of the CDU Maybe Georg Ebner can tell me if this is common across the German-speaking world, but Germans I know tend to refer to the FDP as being not sozial, meaning (without judgement) that they are at least sceptical of many aspects of the German corporatist regime.
|
|
pl
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,568
|
Post by pl on Jun 9, 2020 14:21:00 GMT
I suppose what distinguishes them is that they are much more free market than social market/Rhineland capitalist/corporatist, which both the other older parties tend towards, with minor differences They are certainly to the Right of much of the CDU Maybe Georg Ebner can tell me if this is common across the German-speaking world, but Germans I know tend to refer to the FDP as being not sozial, meaning (without judgement) that they are at least sceptical of many aspects of the German corporatist regime. I often feel that if we all lived in the German political system, half of the Conservatives and half the LDs on this board would be in the FDP. I don't think there would be a one-to-one match between the parties by any stretch of the imagination. I can think of at least one (former) member of the Conservative room, though, who would best be placed in the CSU!
|
|
|
Post by bjornhattan on Jun 9, 2020 14:31:36 GMT
Maybe Georg Ebner can tell me if this is common across the German-speaking world, but Germans I know tend to refer to the FDP as being not sozial, meaning (without judgement) that they are at least sceptical of many aspects of the German corporatist regime. I often feel that if we all lived in the German political system, half of the Conservatives and half the LDs on this board would be in the FDP. I don't think there would be a one-to-one match between the parties by any stretch of the imagination. I can think of at least one (former) member of the Conservative room, though, who would best be placed in the CSU! I've always felt a fairly strong affinity with the FDP, but they've always been too pro-EU for my liking. Even relative to the other parties in Germany they seem very Europhile!
|
|
pl
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,568
|
Post by pl on Jun 9, 2020 14:45:35 GMT
I often feel that if we all lived in the German political system, half of the Conservatives and half the LDs on this board would be in the FDP. I don't think there would be a one-to-one match between the parties by any stretch of the imagination. I can think of at least one (former) member of the Conservative room, though, who would best be placed in the CSU! I've always felt a fairly strong affinity with the FDP, but they've always been too pro-EU for my liking. Even relative to the other parties in Germany they seem very Europhile! Indeed, the rampant europhillia would be a major sticking point. But, to be frank the difference between the CDU and FDP on this is only marginal in the grand scheme of things. And I don't think many mainstream Conservatives would very much like the AfD - unless euroscepticism was their only issue.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2020 15:40:38 GMT
I've always felt a fairly strong affinity with the FDP, but they've always been too pro-EU for my liking. Even relative to the other parties in Germany they seem very Europhile! Indeed, the rampant europhillia would be a major sticking point. But, to be frank the difference between the CDU and FDP on this is only marginal in the grand scheme of things. And I don't think many mainstream Conservatives would very much like the AfD - unless euroscepticism was their only issue. Though the amusing thing about the AfD is that they actually started out as a bunch of academics who quite liked David Cameron...
|
|
pl
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,568
|
Post by pl on Jun 9, 2020 16:47:27 GMT
Indeed, the rampant europhillia would be a major sticking point. But, to be frank the difference between the CDU and FDP on this is only marginal in the grand scheme of things. And I don't think many mainstream Conservatives would very much like the AfD - unless euroscepticism was their only issue. Though the amusing thing about the AfD is that they actually started out as a bunch of academics who quite liked David Cameron... Indeed, but the market for a centre-right eurosceptic party is fairly limited outside of the UK. The closest party to the Conservatives in the EU was the Czech ODS, who of course have been battered considerably since 2010.
|
|