mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 22,327
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Post by mboy on Jun 11, 2020 10:37:59 GMT
Welcome to the wilderness. It has its good points. Like feeling liberated enough not to have to think "should I say this publicly" when you are affiliated to a party. Also I find the current situation odd anyway. No real difference between the two parties on the lockdown. So arguments about odd issues which appear to be taking the place of proper debate. We aren't talking about actual issues of structural racism in the UK, but whether we should pull down statues or take TV programmes off Netflix. Gesture politics personified Some are, things like this will always be an excuse to indulge in gesture politics and virtue signalling - but they can also make people genuinely rethink things. I dont think so Bish. Here's how it goes for the bulk of the public: <George Floyd killed> Public: OMG that's terrible! How can we help? Anti-racists: Throw slavers in the sea! Public: Okay, seems fair Anti-racists: Throw Gladstone in the sea! Public: Really? Hmm. Anti-racists: Throw Churchill in the sea! Public: Uh, no way mate. Anti-racists: Throw Mighty Boosh and Little Britain in the sea! Public: Okay, count me out of this. Anti-racists: Told you society was racist! Public: Whatever.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,474
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Post by The Bishop on Jun 11, 2020 10:41:22 GMT
I mean beneath that superficial froth. Look at the polling from the US, for instance - I doubt if things will prove massively different here.
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mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 22,327
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Post by mboy on Jun 11, 2020 10:41:53 GMT
Polling for what? Trump? He's bombing for a number of reasons.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,474
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Post by The Bishop on Jun 11, 2020 10:58:10 GMT
Massive spike in the number agreeing that the police discriminate against non-whites, for example.
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 11, 2020 11:08:21 GMT
Welcome to the wilderness. It has its good points. Like feeling liberated enough not to have to think "should I say this publicly" when you are affiliated to a party. Also I find the current situation odd anyway. No real difference between the two parties on the lockdown. So arguments about odd issues which appear to be taking the place of proper debate. We aren't talking about actual issues of structural racism in the UK, but whether we should pull down statues or take TV programmes off Netflix. Gesture politics personified Some are, things like this will always be an excuse to indulge in gesture politics and virtue signalling - but they can also make people genuinely rethink things. But have you really seen any evidence of that? I haven't....
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mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 22,327
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Post by mboy on Jun 11, 2020 11:24:18 GMT
Massive spike in the number agreeing that the police discriminate against non-whites, for example. Sure, but that happened before the purge of statues and films. It is, as you identify, the important thing here, and change must follow...so it's critical that people don't get turned off it by the other silliness. Just imagine if the statue crowds were waving placards calling for police to be taught de-escalation, etc. Would actually have an effect in the real world.
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Post by Daft H'a'porth A'peth A'pith on Jun 11, 2020 12:03:51 GMT
Structural virtue signalling anyone?
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mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 22,327
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Post by mboy on Jun 11, 2020 12:14:10 GMT
Just call it what it is: quasi-religion.
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,504
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Post by Khunanup on Jun 11, 2020 12:38:28 GMT
Massive spike in the number agreeing that the police discriminate against non-whites, for example. Sure, but that happened before the purge of statues and films. It is, as you identify, the important thing here, and change must follow...so it's critical that people don't get turned off it by the other silliness. Just imagine if the statue crowds were waving placards calling for police to be taught de-escalation, etc. Would actually have an effect in the real world. I wish they'd go out there and campaign for restorative justice & restorative practices in the nation as a whole. Having that as a basis to our society would help solve a lot of issues that have been raised (and do a hell of a lot more than ludicrous gesture politics).
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jun 11, 2020 15:54:00 GMT
Just call it what it is: quasi-religion. The pseudo-religious aspect has been quite strong. Claims of heresy, talk of original sin, the bizarre thing with the coppers washing people's feet. And that's before we get onto the three funerals of George Floyd, the gold casket, the newspaper bylines that infer that he died so we might live, and the murals showing him as a saint. Although given the current climate, it will be a shock if those stay up.
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Post by yellowperil on Jun 11, 2020 15:58:08 GMT
Sure, but that happened before the purge of statues and films. It is, as you identify, the important thing here, and change must follow...so it's critical that people don't get turned off it by the other silliness. Just imagine if the statue crowds were waving placards calling for police to be taught de-escalation, etc. Would actually have an effect in the real world. I wish they'd go out there and campaign for restorative justice & restorative practices in the nation as a whole. Having that as a basis to our society would help solve a lot of issues that have been raised (and do a hell of a lot more than ludicrous gesture politics). I have liked this because I strongly agree with the need to move on beyond gesture politics and towards restorative politics. I think though there was a case for a few gestures and dumping Colston in the harbour was appropriate enough for its moment in time and pretty well executed, but time now to move on to things which will actually affect people's lives.
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myth11
Non-Aligned
too busy at work!
Posts: 2,732
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Post by myth11 on Jun 11, 2020 16:20:25 GMT
I wish they'd go out there and campaign for restorative justice & restorative practices in the nation as a whole. Having that as a basis to our society would help solve a lot of issues that have been raised (and do a hell of a lot more than ludicrous gesture politics). I have liked this because I strongly agree with the need to move on beyond gesture politics and towards restorative politics. I think though there was a case for a few gestures and dumping Colston in the harbour was appropriate enough for its moment in time and pretty well executed, but time now to move on to things which will actually affect people's lives. Unlikely as that would mean hard choices.
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lefty
Socialist
Posts: 845
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Post by lefty on Jun 19, 2020 23:13:10 GMT
Apologies for taking this off topic but I guess I should probably be a greyer colour and no longer have access to the Labour forum, still a member for the moment but only because I paid up front for a bit.
I'll pretty much be politically inactive aside from some tutting and shaking my head when news occasionally forces its way into my conciosness (mercifully rarely now I don't watch or listen to any)
Might post rarely, I'll probably come back a bit more actively if/when Labour get a left wing leader.
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Post by Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells on Jun 19, 2020 23:48:43 GMT
Apologies for taking this off topic but I guess I should probably be a greyer colour and no longer have access to the Labour forum, still a member for the moment but only because I paid up front for a bit. I'll pretty much be politically inactive aside from some tutting and shaking my head when news occasionally forces its way into my conciosness (mercifully rarely now I don't watch or listen to any) Might post rarely, I'll probably come back a bit more actively if/when Labour get a left wing leader. If you wish to join our left wing Socialist forum (not affiliated to any political party) and gain our colours, we're always here 🙂.
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Post by BossMan on Jun 20, 2020 7:17:31 GMT
Apologies for taking this off topic but I guess I should probably be a greyer colour and no longer have access to the Labour forum, still a member for the moment but only because I paid up front for a bit. I'll pretty much be politically inactive aside from some tutting and shaking my head when news occasionally forces its way into my conciosness (mercifully rarely now I don't watch or listen to any) Might post rarely, I'll probably come back a bit more actively if/when Labour get a left wing leader. On the contrary, you're taking this very much on topic. I'll paint you grey for now, but if you want to take up Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells's suggestion of being labelled a Socialist just let me know.
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lefty
Socialist
Posts: 845
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Post by lefty on Jun 22, 2020 23:07:58 GMT
Apologies for taking this off topic but I guess I should probably be a greyer colour and no longer have access to the Labour forum, still a member for the moment but only because I paid up front for a bit. I'll pretty much be politically inactive aside from some tutting and shaking my head when news occasionally forces its way into my conciosness (mercifully rarely now I don't watch or listen to any) Might post rarely, I'll probably come back a bit more actively if/when Labour get a left wing leader. On the contrary, you're taking this very much on topic. I'll paint you grey for now, but if you want to take up Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells 's suggestion of being labelled a Socialist just let me know. Make it so. Edit: Please and thank you.
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iang
Lib Dem
Posts: 1,511
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Post by iang on Jun 26, 2020 8:51:44 GMT
Make it so sounds very Jack Aubrey. "Beat to quarters!"
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timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
Posts: 11,823
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Post by timmullen1 on Jun 26, 2020 9:07:42 GMT
Make it so sounds very Jack Aubrey. "Beat to quarters!" It’s copyright Jean-Luc Picard, Captain, USS Enterprise, Star Trek: The Next Generation.
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iang
Lib Dem
Posts: 1,511
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Post by iang on Jun 26, 2020 9:10:44 GMT
Make it so sounds very Jack Aubrey. "Beat to quarters!" It’s copyright Jean-Luc Picard, Captain, USS Enterprise, Star Trek: The Next Generation. I think you'll find Capt Jack Aubrey, HMS Surprise, got there a few hundred years beforehand
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Post by Daft H'a'porth A'peth A'pith on Jun 26, 2020 13:51:59 GMT
Have we had another account go from the forum in the last 24 hours?
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