Adrian
Co-operative Party
Posts: 1,742 
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Post by Adrian on Oct 13, 2016 11:10:17 GMT
True, but Penddu has a valid point, of course. The parties' submissions are tainted because although there are people in the party who are mainly concerned with drawing a better map based on local sentiment, there are others who are more interested in which map will win more seats, and the party would be daft not to listen more to the latter group and make submissions on that basis. It's a shame though, because it means that the ACs have to treat the parties' submissions (well, Lab and Con especially), which otherwise would be their most useful resource, with a pinch of salt.
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ricmk
Lib Dem
Posts: 2,633
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Post by ricmk on Oct 13, 2016 12:06:51 GMT
Just got back from Carmarthen so here's potted summary. Conservatives had no objections to any safe Labour seat and proposed admendents to their seats / targets, Labour objected to the whole thing (and did the same), UKIP didn't show up, Plaid complained about the whole thing and that not all the seats would be named in the Welsh language and the Lib Dems went so into the minutiae of the thing that several people seemed to just doze off. My suggestions were actually welcomed by the Labour representative who was there and the assistant commissioners were quite intrigued at the idea of bringing back Pembrokeshire (especially when I mentioned that it had been a constituency from at least 1885 to 1983) In my humble opinion, political groups should be excluded from commenting on the proposals as they will inevitably try and spin the plans to their own political advantage. If you did that, you'd get dozens of "independent concerned residents" making similar points, who are nothing of the sort. At least the biases are out in the open when responding on behalf of a political group, rather than (badly) hidden. |
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Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
Posts: 2,922
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Oct 13, 2016 17:17:06 GMT
The final day of the inquiry was filled with one refrain over and over again (including from the Plaid Cymru councillor for the ward) "What the flip is Cenarth doing in Ceredigion and Pembroke North? It's CARMARTHENSHIRE for crying out loud!"
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on Oct 13, 2016 18:04:21 GMT
Just got back from Carmarthen so here's potted summary. Conservatives had no objections to any safe Labour seat and proposed admendents to their seats / targets, Labour objected to the whole thing (and did the same), UKIP didn't show up, Plaid complained about the whole thing and that not all the seats would be named in the Welsh language and the Lib Dems went so into the minutiae of the thing that several people seemed to just doze off. My suggestions were actually welcomed by the Labour representative who was there and the assistant commissioners were quite intrigued at the idea of bringing back Pembrokeshire (especially when I mentioned that it had been a constituency from at least 1885 to 1983) In my humble opinion, political groups should be excluded from commenting on the proposals as they will inevitably try and spin the plans to their own political advantage. You can't stop them commenting, and it's better that they're honest that they're party political submissions. I'm not convinced that the parties should be given a privileged position in the consultation process, though. |
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Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
Posts: 2,922
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Oct 14, 2016 9:43:32 GMT
One of the comments that Plaid made was question why Anglesey had not been given the same protection as Orkney and Shetland, the Western Isles and the Isle of Wight. Now that I am starting on North Wales, I am beginning to agree with them. Gwynedd's electorate of 80,092 is only just over quorate but when you add Anglesey into the mix, it comes to 129,379 (which is 1.82 bottom end seats and 1.64 top end seats).
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Post by lennon on Oct 14, 2016 12:52:59 GMT
One of the comments that Plaid made was question why Anglesey had not been given the same protection as Orkney and Shetland, the Western Isles and the Isle of Wight. It must be really irritating for the Commissioners to receive submissions about stuff which is legally entirely out of their hands and about which they can do absolutely nothing. Is there any way in which they can feed back to Parliament on particular issues? |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Oct 14, 2016 13:17:28 GMT
One of the comments that Plaid made was question why Anglesey had not been given the same protection as Orkney and Shetland, the Western Isles and the Isle of Wight. It must be really irritating for the Commissioners to receive submissions about stuff which is legally entirely out of their hands and about which they can do absolutely nothing. Is there any way in which they can feed back to Parliament on particular issues? It isn't their job to feed back these kind of things to Parliament. There are three Plaid Cymru MPs who can do that. The feedback the commission should be giving is to those who make such submissions, pointing out that this stuff is legally entirely out of their hands, that they can do absolutely nothing about it and that it is really irritating for them to receive such submissions, especially from those (eg political parties) who ought to know this without being told. |
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Adrian
Co-operative Party
Posts: 1,742
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Post by Adrian on Oct 14, 2016 13:40:14 GMT
One of the comments that Plaid made was question why Anglesey had not been given the same protection as Orkney and Shetland, the Western Isles and the Isle of Wight. Which is of course why no part of the UK should be given preferential treatment. It's inherently unfair and leads inevitably to the question "if them, why not us." |
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Post by John Chanin on Oct 14, 2016 17:31:31 GMT
I've only just got round to looking at the BCW's proposals. They are very similar to those I came up with (but with noted improvements), and look very sensible to me.
West Midlands, London and North-East are the areas I am unhappy with, although there are strange seats in Greater Manchester too.
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Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
Posts: 2,922
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Oct 15, 2016 18:56:33 GMT
Here are the complete list of the constituencies that I will be submitting to the Boundary Commission for Wales
Anglesey and the Glyders (Ynys Môn ac yr Glyders) 71,366
The Big Pit Valley and Rogerstone 77.983
Blaenau Gwent 76,304
Brecknock, Radnor and Montgomeryshire South 73,297
Bridgend 75,529
Caerphilly 76,922
Cardiff North and East 77,764
Cardiff South 76,467
Cardiff West 73,647
Carmarthenshire Rural 74,481
Ceredigion and Montgomeryshire North 72,595
Conwy Coast and Betws 74,103
The Dee Valley and Prestatyn 77,023
Denbighshire and Lake Vyrnwy 71,399
Gower and Swansea West 76,995
Gwynedd and the Clwyd Valley (Gwynedd a Dyffryn Clwyd) 71,400
Llanelli and Ammanford 76,146
Merthyr, Caerphilly South and Bassaleg 77,933
Monmouthshire 76,659
Neath and Port Talbot 78,064
Newport 75,986
Pembrokeshire 72,647
Rhondda North 77,515
Rhondda South 75,543
South Wales Coastal 77,471
Swansea Valley East 76,850
Vale of Glamorgan East 74,483
Wrexham North and the Marches 74,128
Wrexham South 71,141
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Foggy
Non-Aligned
Yn Ennill Yma
Posts: 6,144
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Post by Foggy on Oct 16, 2016 3:21:25 GMT
Anglesey and the Glyders (Ynys Môn ac yr Glyders) 71,366 Are you sure you don't mean "Y Glyderau"?? |
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Post by Penddu on Oct 16, 2016 5:24:04 GMT
Here are the complete list of the constituencies that I will be submitting to the Boundary Commission for Wales Anglesey and the Glyders (Ynys Môn ac yr Glyders) 71,366 The Big Pit Valley and Rogerstone 77.983 Blaenau Gwent 76,304 Brecknock, Radnor and Montgomeryshire South 73,297 Bridgend 75,529 Caerphilly 76,922 Cardiff North and East 77,764 Cardiff South 76,467 Cardiff West 73,647 Carmarthenshire Rural 74,481 Ceredigion and Montgomeryshire North 72,595 Conwy Coast and Betws 74,103 The Dee Valley and Prestatyn 77,023 Denbighshire and Lake Vyrnwy 71,399 Gower and Swansea West 76,995 Gwynedd and the Clwyd Valley (Gwynedd a Dyffryn Clwyd) 71,400 Llanelli and Ammanford 76,146 Merthyr, Caerphilly South and Bassaleg 77,933 Monmouthshire 76,659 Neath and Port Talbot 78,064 Newport 75,986 Pembrokeshire 72,647 Rhondda North 77,515 Rhondda South 75,543 South Wales Coastal 77,471 Swansea Valley East 76,850 Vale of Glamorgan East 74,483 Wrexham North and the Marches 74,128 Wrexham South 71,141 Apart from some truly awful names, have you corrected your original proposals where Swansea town centre was not in a Swansea seat, Port Talbot not in Neath and Port Talbot, and Bridgend not in Bridgend...? Sereiously Harry, in promoting your Ceredigion-centric approach, your proposals cause chaos in every seat across south Wales...... |
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on Oct 16, 2016 7:23:20 GMT
Anglesey and the Glyders (Ynys Môn ac yr Glyders) 71,366 Are you sure you don't mean "Y Glyderau"?? They're even sometimes called the Glyderau in English (see Wikipedia for example). |
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on Oct 16, 2016 7:58:38 GMT
Here are the complete list of the constituencies that I will be submitting to the Boundary Commission for Wales Can you post a map, or ward lists, or at least some descriptions? The only way I can get something for which this name makes sense with this electorate is if it excludes St Augustines ward in Penarth. However, the numbers don't work for it in the Cardiff seats either so I think you've got a mistake here. As pointed out before, I'm pretty sure this doesn't contain Bassaleg, which is in your "Caerphilly", but does contain Mountain Ash. Poor Montgomeryshire. |
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Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
Posts: 2,922
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Oct 16, 2016 9:32:25 GMT
By all means. As I am creating the actual submission document, I would be more than happy to post the actual wards that make up these constituencies
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Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
Posts: 2,922
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Oct 16, 2016 10:43:43 GMT
Anglesey and the Glyders (71,366)(Gwynedd) Bethel, Cadnant, Deiniol, Dewi, Garth, Glyder, Hendre, Hirael, Llanrug, Marchog, Menai (Bangor), Menai (Caernarfon), Peblig (Caernarfon), Penisarwaun, Pentir, Seiont, Tregarth & Mynydd Llandygai, Y Felinheli (Anglesey) Aethwy, Bro Aberffraw, Bro Rhosyr, Caergybi, Canolbarth Mon, Llifon, Lligwy, Seiriol, Talybolion, Twrcelyn, Ynys Gybi 
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Foggy
Non-Aligned
Yn Ennill Yma
Posts: 6,144
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Post by Foggy on Oct 16, 2016 18:58:22 GMT
Are you sure you don't mean "Y Glyderau"?? They're even sometimes called the Glyderau in English (see Wikipedia for example). Good point. So, Harry does mean Y Glyderau but is just refusing to correct it. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Oct 16, 2016 19:01:55 GMT
One of the comments that Plaid made was question why Anglesey had not been given the same protection as Orkney and Shetland, the Western Isles and the Isle of Wight. Has Plaid not noticed those two bridges? Two roads and a rail link. |
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Post by Lord Twaddleford on Oct 16, 2016 19:52:01 GMT
One of the comments that Plaid made was question why Anglesey had not been given the same protection as Orkney and Shetland, the Western Isles and the Isle of Wight. Has Plaid not noticed those two bridges? Two roads and a rail link. The fact that the Scottish Islands don't have any road/rail links to the mainland is no reason why they should get special status, especially when doing so allows for such malapportioned constituencies to exist. (As for the Isle of Wight, it kind of has the inverse problem...) |
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Adrian
Co-operative Party
Posts: 1,742
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Post by Adrian on Oct 16, 2016 22:51:04 GMT
The final day of the inquiry was filled with one refrain over and over again (including from the Plaid Cymru councillor for the ward) "What the flip is Cenarth doing in Ceredigion and Pembroke North? It's CARMARTHENSHIRE for crying out loud!" These complaints, though irritating, can at least be resolved just by changing the name of the seat. Something with Teifi in it perhaps? How about calling the seat "Cardigan Bay"? Would that wash? p.s. Don't tell the residents, but the Ordnance Survey says Cenarth is in Ceredigion... |
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