|
|
Post by gwynthegriff on Sept 14, 2016 11:31:29 GMT
Scilly doesn't, though. I think Scilly should have its own MP. I think it should too  If a system can't make exceptions for scattered island seats then it's a bad system. Caldey?  |
|
|
|
Post by gwynthegriff on Sept 14, 2016 11:34:11 GMT
Fyck it, let's have a go at the lot. Not bothering with Welsh versions; in most cases the translations are obvious anyway. 1. Menai 2. The trouble with the Eryri suggestion is that not many people live in that part of the seat. But then no name is really suitable: what a Godawful mess of a constituency. Gwynedd might work as a very desperate cop out but there are now obvious issues with that name. You could probably come up with all kinds of versions from the many districts in the seat, or we could just cheat and be all Australian and call it Lloyd George. 3. Costa Geriatrica. The official 'Colwyn & Conwy' works I suppose but actually it could easily be just Conwy, though that would risk confusion with the old seat of that name. Oh, how about Great Orme? 4. Flint 5. Deeside 6. Wrexham 7. Let us name this horror after its disuniting feature: Berwyn. 8. Similar issues to 2. Might as well just call it Powys. 9. Monmouth 10. Newport 11. Pontypool because its a nice name and a historic constituency. More accurate would be Pontypool & Cwmbran o/c. 12. Ebbw Vale & Abertillery 13. Merthyr Tydfil, which after all is still one of the largest towns in Wales. 14. Caerphilly 15. Pontypridd & Aberdare (or the other way round, whatever floats your boat) 16. Rhondda 17. Cardiff West 18. Cardiff North 19. Cardiff South East 20. Barry 21. Bridgend 22. Ogmore (or Aberavon-Ogmore; the name should be preserved but the idiotic boundaries here make it tricky) 23. Neath (or Aberavon-Neath; ibid) 24. Swansea East (or just Swansea, see 25) 25. The trouble here is that 'Gower' refers to a much larger area than often assumed. So 'Swansea West & Gower' is not ideal and Swansea West & Gower West is ugly. Gower South? 26. Llanelli or (see above) Llanelli & Gower North? 27. Carmarthen 28. Pembroke 29. Cardigan Bay Or maybe: 1. Britannia Bridge 2. Betws-y-coed, so the English can mispronounce it 3. Llandudno 4. Holywell 5. Mold, if it has to go into East Flintshire 6. Bangor-on-Dee, just to confuse the English 7. Oswestry Outer 8. Greater Radnorshire 9. Llanwern, just to troll them 10. Guangxi Province's Twin 11. Caerleon and Blaenafon 12. Nant-y-glo and Tredegar 13. Pantysgallog, see (2) 14. Waterloo, see (6) 15. Llanwonno East 16. Llantrisant, as it is at least a town 17. Terlezki, for Australian reasons18. Grist, ditto 19. Kinloch-Cooke, ditto 20. Cowbridge, similar reasons to 16 21. Broughton, because it has the real one in it 22. Maesteg and McArthur Glen 23. Clyne (Neath)24. Kilvey Hill, so as not to forget Coedffranc 25. Clyne (Swansea)26. Pontardulais, which should only have one d in the middle 27. Bethlehem, because it's world-famous 28. Haverfordwest 29. Llanidloes and Fishguard Ah, dear old Stefan!  |
|
|
|
Post by Lord Twaddleford on Sept 14, 2016 11:37:12 GMT
2. Betws-y-coed, so the English can mispronounce it "Betsy Co-ed", as my old driving instructor (a Llandudno native) used to say.  |
|
carlton43
Reform Party
Posts: 51,154 
Member is Online
|
Post by carlton43 on Sept 14, 2016 12:55:45 GMT
Why is there this absurd concern about travel and routes and corridors in constituencies? These are about voting and a possible/probable community of interest within a patch. The electors are concerned with having a vote as part of a group of locals. They don't expect to know these locals, to like these locals or be frequently needing to call on each other. Most of them will have but a sketchy idea of the map of the constituency and care less about it. I have lived in a number of constituencies where the average constituent has only been to bits of it in an entire lifetime. Why would anyone wish to go from Stornoway to Kirkwall in the normal course of daily existence? No one. Perhaps the MP might during a campaign? Perhaps once in a life for a wedding or a big sale or a house move? The infrequency is the reason for the lack of transport availability. Yet there will be an abstract closeness, understanding and identity of interest between the townspeople of those two townships that it far far closer than it is between Worksop and Retford in Bassetlaw. Those communities are close and well connected by road and rail. They cordially loath each other. They have little identity of interest and class and political differences. Irrespective of this, it just doesn't make much sense to put the Western Isles in a constituency with Orkney and Shetland. If the aim is to create similarly sized constituencies with no protected status, the sensible thing would be to put the Western Isles in a seat with Wester Ross, Skye and Lochaber, and Orkney in a seat with Caithness and Sutherland. Shetland is a bit of an outlier, but it would go best in this latter seat too. Agreed. I have already posted to that effect yesterday. I suggested Shetland with Aberdeen seat containing the docks! Or it could go with Orkney into Caithness and Sutherland. I see little justification for 'protection'. The aims and objects of the Highlands and Islands have a deal of similarity and there is no deficit in losing exclusive island constituencies. We are all concerned about distance, lack of/cost of public transport, additional postal/delivery charges, crofting, fishing, tourism, farm subsidies, forestry, air ambulance cover, remote GP/Medical Centres, ferries and energy costs. My thread was all about constituency structure and nature of contiguity, lines of communication and ease of movement within. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2016 14:09:48 GMT
Why is Anglesey not a protected island constituency? Orkney is as far from Mainland Scotland as Anglesy is from Mainland Wales. You are joking? At the closest point Anglesey is about 200 yards from the mainland, whereas the closest of the Orkney islands is several miles away. |
|
Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,058
|
Post by Sibboleth on Sept 14, 2016 14:14:38 GMT
Why is Anglesey not a protected island constituency? Orkney is as far from Mainland Scotland as Anglesy is from Mainland Wales. Officially because it has bridges to the mainland, unofficially because it has a Labour MP. You get to pick which version of the truth you prefer, which is fun. |
|
Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,058
|
Post by Sibboleth on Sept 14, 2016 14:29:01 GMT
And if the purpose is to acknowledge the problem of inaccessibility, then why do we have a cross-Berwyn constituency proposed? Those things are a far great physical barrier than, say, the Solent.
|
|
Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,058
|
Post by Sibboleth on Sept 14, 2016 14:32:12 GMT
What I'm suggesting, of course, is not that the rules are a malicious conspiracy but that they are shit infused with vague and not particularly well thought out partisan consideration.
|
|
carlton43
Reform Party
Posts: 51,154
Member is Online
|
Post by carlton43 on Sept 14, 2016 14:37:26 GMT
Why is Anglesey not a protected island constituency? Orkney is as far from Mainland Scotland as Anglesy is from Mainland Wales. Rubbish! Shetland is an overnight trip away and Orkney a two hour ferry ride at the closest point. Anglesey has a damn bridge onto it. You are being daft and showing a woeful ignorance of geography. |
|
Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,058
|
Post by Sibboleth on Sept 14, 2016 14:40:37 GMT
That part was ignorant, but the question itself is fair. Basically the rules say that an island is an island except when it is not an island because reasons. And of course the idea that water automatically and always forms the hardest of barriers to cross is ignorance but here ignorance raised to the status of a principle. Very 21st Century Britain actually.
|
|
Adrian
Co-operative Party
Posts: 1,742
|
Post by Adrian on Sept 14, 2016 14:49:16 GMT
|
|
Adrian
Co-operative Party
Posts: 1,742
|
Post by Adrian on Sept 14, 2016 15:05:02 GMT
Presumably you'd advocate that they only got half pay as well? No. I think there should be an element in MPs' pay to allow for the difficulty in representing the seat in parliament, and the allowance for the islands would be 100%, so the two half-MPs would each receive a salary about the same as the MP for Westminster. |
|
carlton43
Reform Party
Posts: 51,154
Member is Online
|
Post by carlton43 on Sept 14, 2016 15:05:16 GMT
That part was ignorant, but the question itself is fair. Basically the rules say that an island is an island except when it is not an island because reasons. And of course the idea that water automatically and always forms the hardest of barriers to cross is ignorance but here ignorance raised to the status of a principle. Very 21st Century Britain actually. Well! Protection then for islands that matter and have big populations, like Sheppey, Canvey, Portsea and Bute? |
|
carlton43
Reform Party
Posts: 51,154
Member is Online
|
Post by carlton43 on Sept 14, 2016 15:18:59 GMT
Presumably you'd advocate that they only got half pay as well? No. I think there should be an element in MPs' pay to allow for the difficulty in representing the seat in parliament, and the allowance for the islands would be 100%, so the two half-MPs would each receive a salary about the same as the MP for Westminster. That should be addressed through approved expenses. An MP representing Orkney and Shetland should be permitted the expenses of a dwelling in London, Edinburgh, the Orkneys and the Shetlands, as well as staffed offices in each island group, possibly more than one office in each group The MP for Westminster only needs one dwelling and one office. In Westminster he is so close as to need less staff cover in the constituency. |
|
|
|
Post by minionofmidas on Sept 14, 2016 15:22:51 GMT
Why is Anglesey not a protected island constituency? Orkney is as far from Mainland Scotland as Anglesy is from Mainland Wales. Officially because it has bridges to the mainland, unofficially because it has a Labour MP. You get to pick which version of the truth you prefer, which is fun. Strictly speaking the official reason is that it's because it's not listed in the Act. -_- |
|
Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
Posts: 2,922
|
Post by Harry Hayfield on Sept 14, 2016 15:35:05 GMT
I did a blog post for Roger Scully on his Elections in Wales blog about possible constituencies and looking at the official report I believe I managed to nail a couple. I am only one ward out on Anglesey and Arfon, two wards out on Brecon, Radnor and Montgomery, two wards out on Cardiff North, one ward out on Carmarthenshire and about three wards out on Monmouth.
|
|
|
|
Post by afleitch on Sept 14, 2016 17:50:44 GMT
You can sort out mid Wales very easily, without crossing the Powys/Dyfed border. Take Brecon/Radnor/Montgomery and add back in the two wards in Ceredigion. Extend Ceredigion to compensate by adding in Llanybydder and Llanfihangel-ar-Arth wards from Carmarthenshire. Take Llanboidy ward out of South Pembrokeshire and add it to Carmarthenshire, then take Tycroes from Llanelli and add it to Carmarthenshire.  |
|
|
|
Post by pembspolitic on Sept 14, 2016 18:10:01 GMT
You can sort out mid Wales very easily, without crossing the Powys/Dyfed border. Take Brecon/Radnor/Montgomery and add back in the two wards in Ceredigion. Extend Ceredigion to compensate by adding in Llanybydder and Llanfihangel-ar-Arth wards from Carmarthenshire. Take Llanboidy ward out of South Pembrokeshire and add it to Carmarthenshire, then take Tycroes from Llanelli and add it to Carmarthenshire. You've just taken Maenclochog ward (not Llanboidy) and put it in Carmarthenshire - which would be confusing. Would be better to keep put Llanybydder in Carmarthenshire and add Maenclochog to Ceredigion (with the rest of the Preseli area). |
|
|
|
Post by Penddu on Sept 15, 2016 9:02:53 GMT
I agree with the two posts above...it is just not neccesary to cross the Powys Dyfed border - there are a few ways to do this, all of which are straightforward.
|
|
|
|
Post by Penddu on Sept 15, 2016 9:21:14 GMT
I have been thinking about the Bridgend - Port Talbot split, and think there is a better way. In the current proposals the Pencoed/Brynna/Llanharan area to the East of Bridgend are joined with Port Talbot to the West...while the Pyle//Cornelly area which is in the shadows of Port Talbot steelworks, is attached instead to Bridgend. I suggest placing the Porthcawl/Pyle/Cornelly area in PortTalbot & Ogmore and placing Pencoed/Brynna/Llanharan in Bridgend.
This would make the Bridgend seat a little light, but this could be fattened up by adding Cowbridge to Bridgend in place of St Athan. This also seems to make more sense for the Bridgend - Vale of Glamorgan boundary.
|
|
If a system can't make exceptions for scattered island seats then it's a bad system.
