Ogmore

[Sharon]

Do excuse me butting in, but this thread is supposed to be about the Ogmore by-election....

[thirdchill]

Apr 23, 2016 15:27:56 GMT Sharon said:

Do excuse me butting in, but this thread is supposed to be about the Ogmore by-election....

Agree with this, but then to a certain extent the thread reflects the amount of publicity that some elections are getting compared to others.

The order of publicity (most to least) for elections in England seems to be as follows:

EU Referendum
London Mayoral Election
Local elections elsewhere in England (including Mayoral contests)
Ogmore and Sheffield Brightside & Hillsborough by-elections.

Am starting to loathe the sheer amount of time and publicity given to people's utterly ill-informed nonsense and scaremongering on the EU referendum debate, to the extent that I am now switching channels or turning the TV off when such an item appears on the news.

[wjm2000]

Apr 23, 2016 17:30:36 GMT thirdchill said:

Apr 23, 2016 15:27:56 GMT Sharon said:

Do excuse me butting in, but this thread is supposed to be about the Ogmore by-election....

Agree with this, but then to a certain extent the thread reflects the amount of publicity that some elections are getting compared to others.

The order of publicity (most to least) for elections in England seems to be as follows:

EU Referendum
London Mayoral Election
Local elections elsewhere in England (including Mayoral contests)
Ogmore and Sheffield Brightside & Hillsborough by-elections.

Am starting to loathe the sheer amount of time and publicity given to people's utterly ill-informed nonsense and scaremongering on the EU referendum debate, to the extent that I am now switching channels or turning the TV off when such an item appears on the news.

Am glad I am not the only Conservative fed up of the EU referendum debate. I wish we could actually have the sort of political atmosphere/media where the Leave campaign could say "Britain will likely be hit economically by Brexit in the short term but in the long run, may well benefit economically" without that being reduced to "EVEN LEAVE CAMPAIGN ADMIT BREXIT WOULD MAKE BRITAIN POORER" by the Remainers.  I think that's pretty much an open secret amongst Leavers but cannot be stated publicly because it'd soon be reduced to a cheap soundbite by BSE, this meaning that the quality of the debate suffers.

[Deleted]

The thread has taken yet another meander. I'm sure there is a thread to discuss EU referendum already. And another to discuss electoral reform. Maybe Green Christian could set up a thread on global warming. And East Anglian Lefty could set up his own thread for playground style personal abuse.

[carlton43]

Apr 20, 2016 17:37:26 GMT @szczecinianin said:

Apr 20, 2016 17:09:30 GMT greenchristian said:

So why not single out controversial beliefs like "Britain is full" or "belonging to the EU is bad for the UK", none of which have anything approaching the overwhelming evidence that anthropogenic global warming has? Is it because your party preaches the first two, but is uncomfortable about acknowledging the evidence for the latter?

Weak.

'Britain is full' is simply an opinion. It's hardly quantifiable, therefore evidence doesn't really come into it. Whether it's 'full' or not simply depends on how you would define 'full'.

However, if you wanted to look at facts, England is the most densely populated country in Europe bar the small island state of Malta. That's pretty 'full' by contemporary standards.

About thirty years ago the Greens thought the optimum population of Britain should be twenty million. What has happened since then?

Again, the advisibility of 'Brexit' is more a matter of opinion than of hard fact, and is not really quantifiable either. It just depends on the kind of country you wish to live in, I suppose.

Out of curiosity, do you understand the actual science behind global warming theory, or do you just believe this because of what 'experts' tell us?

I can easily look up population densities on wikipedia to decide the extent of Britain's 'fullness', but I believe a full grasp of climate change theory requires scientific knowledge well beyond that of the average citizen.

Is the UK the most densely populated country in Europe? What about Vatican, San Remo, Monaco, Andorra, Belgium and Holland?

[carlton43]

Apr 21, 2016 21:38:41 GMT @szczecinianin said:

Apr 21, 2016 21:31:51 GMT East Anglian Lefty said:

Because I see no reason why you deserve any respect.

Unless someone is a paedophile or something of that nature, there is no real reason to disrespect them. Everyone has their good and bad points, and everyone has their own story to tell. And just as importantly, disrespect someone, and they are liable to return the favour with interest. It's called 'karma'.

That is a truly abysmal post of the deepest mawkishness. It is from the bottom end of Form 4B in a not very good girl's school. It ends with 'Karma' and loses you every point you might otherwise have earned in a lifetime.

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2016 21:10:30 GMT carlton43 said:

Apr 20, 2016 17:37:26 GMT @szczecinianin said:

Weak.

'Britain is full' is simply an opinion. It's hardly quantifiable, therefore evidence doesn't really come into it. Whether it's 'full' or not simply depends on how you would define 'full'.

However, if you wanted to look at facts, England is the most densely populated country in Europe bar the small island state of Malta. That's pretty 'full' by contemporary standards.

About thirty years ago the Greens thought the optimum population of Britain should be twenty million. What has happened since then?

Again, the advisibility of 'Brexit' is more a matter of opinion than of hard fact, and is not really quantifiable either. It just depends on the kind of country you wish to live in, I suppose.

Out of curiosity, do you understand the actual science behind global warming theory, or do you just believe this because of what 'experts' tell us?

I can easily look up population densities on wikipedia to decide the extent of Britain's 'fullness', but I believe a full grasp of climate change theory requires scientific knowledge well beyond that of the average citizen.

Is the UK the most densely populated country in Europe? What about Vatican, San Remo, Monaco, Andorra, Belgium and Holland?

I wrote 'England', not the UK. Yes, it is more densely populated than both Belgium and Holland. I imagine it is less densely populated than Monaco and Vatican. I don't know about Andorra and San Marino. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2530125/This-worryingly-crowded-isle-England-officially-Europes-densely-packed-country.html

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2016 21:25:50 GMT carlton43 said:

Apr 21, 2016 21:38:41 GMT @szczecinianin said:

Unless someone is a paedophile or something of that nature, there is no real reason to disrespect them. Everyone has their good and bad points, and everyone has their own story to tell. And just as importantly, disrespect someone, and they are liable to return the favour with interest. It's called 'karma'.

That is a truly abysmal post of the deepest mawkishness. It is from the bottom end of Form 4B in a not very good girl's school. It ends with 'Karma' and loses you every point you might otherwise have earned in a lifetime.

I'm a veteran of countless flame wars on other boards, Carlton. Maybe the language was a bit too sentimental, and I shouldn't have used the word 'karma', but the points are valid enough.

If we don't respect each other we'll simply end up in a morass of petty squabbles and feuds.

Also, we don't really know each other well enough to make sweeping judgements about the character and intelligence of other board members.

[carlton43]

Apr 23, 2016 21:45:54 GMT @szczecinianin said:

Apr 23, 2016 21:10:30 GMT carlton43 said:

Is the UK the most densely populated country in Europe? What about Vatican, San Remo, Monaco, Andorra, Belgium and Holland?

I wrote 'England', not the UK. Yes, it is more densely populated than both Belgium and Holland. I imagine it is less densely populated than Monaco and Vatican. I don't know about Andorra and San Marino. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2530125/This-worryingly-crowded-isle-England-officially-Europes-densely-packed-country.html

Yes, you did use England but had started the response on 'Britain is Full', and I just assumed you meant Britain and had casually used England as one does! Point accepted.

[carlton43]

Apr 23, 2016 22:13:26 GMT @szczecinianin said:

Apr 23, 2016 21:25:50 GMT carlton43 said:

That is a truly abysmal post of the deepest mawkishness. It is from the bottom end of Form 4B in a not very good girl's school. It ends with 'Karma' and loses you every point you might otherwise have earned in a lifetime.

I'm a veteran of countless flame wars on other boards, Carlton. Maybe the language was a bit too sentimental, and I shouldn't have used the word 'karma', but the points are valid enough.

If we don't respect each other we'll simply end up in a morass of petty squabbles and feuds.

Also, we don't really know each other well enough to make sweeping judgements about the character and intelligence of other board members.

Yes. Good of you to take that and give a 'Like'. You are very robust and fight every point. You are right about the casual abuse and the lack of care in the use of abusive terms. I don't like that. There is far too much of the cretin, moron, etc. You will know that I am tart, acerbic, rude and sarcastic, but about the material, the ideas and the mode of expression, not about the person as a person. You have got it in the neck from one person that I have suffered from and I find it best to never respond directly to his posts at all and only to make positive references when they are due, I have banned myself from responding to him. I recommend it for you.

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2016 20:35:40 GMT @szczecinianin said:

The thread has taken yet another meander. I'm sure there is a thread to discuss EU referendum already. And another to discuss electoral reform. Maybe Green Christian could set up a thread on global warming. And East Anglian Lefty could set up his own thread for playground style personal abuse.

Will you set up a thread for hypocrisy?

[johnloony]

Apr 23, 2016 21:10:30 GMT carlton43 said:

What about Vatican, San Remo, Monaco, Andorra, Belgium and Holland?

Vatican and Monaco both have a higher population density than England. San Remo and Holland are not countries. Andorra and Belgium both have a lower population density than England.

[johnloony]

If the voters of Ogmore are contemplating the population density of Andorra as the main criterion in determining how they vote, it would be both surreal and a degenerate bourgeois distraction.

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2016 23:26:36 GMT definitelyacybernat said:

Apr 23, 2016 20:35:40 GMT @szczecinianin said:

The thread has taken yet another meander. I'm sure there is a thread to discuss EU referendum already. And another to discuss electoral reform. Maybe Green Christian could set up a thread on global warming. And East Anglian Lefty could set up his own thread for playground style personal abuse.

Will you set up a thread for hypocrisy?

Sure. Are you hoping to contribute?

[Sibboleth]

Regarding the idea that we are 'full': more people used to live in the seriously rural parts of the countryside than do now. Populations frequently peaked in the 19th century, in the case of rural Wales often in the mid 19th century at that. Meanwhile in industrial areas in Wales populations often peaked in the early 20th century. The town my Taid was born in has something like less than half the population it did at start of the 20th century. An extreme case of course.

[Deleted]

Apr 24, 2016 14:57:50 GMT Sibboleth said:

Regarding the idea that we are 'full': more people used to live in the seriously rural parts of the countryside than do now. Populations frequently peaked in the 19th century, in the case of rural Wales often in the mid 19th century at that. Meanwhile in industrial areas in Wales populations often peaked in the early 20th century. The town my Taid was born in has something like less than half the population it did at start of the 20th century. An extreme case of course.

I never expressed the idea that we were 'full'. I'm not even aware that it is some kind of UKIP slogan. It's been used in Australia where the population density is far, far less than that of the UK.

As I stated earlier, 'fullness' is an opinion not a quantifiable concept. Are we full at 10, 100 or 1,000 people per square kilometre?

[Deleted]

I hail from the Isle of Wight. It has some quite beautiful countryside. However, I believe its population is greater than that of all the Hebredean islands put together.

Everything is relative.

[maxque]

Apr 24, 2016 15:37:26 GMT @szczecinianin said:

Apr 24, 2016 14:57:50 GMT Sibboleth said:

Regarding the idea that we are 'full': more people used to live in the seriously rural parts of the countryside than do now. Populations frequently peaked in the 19th century, in the case of rural Wales often in the mid 19th century at that. Meanwhile in industrial areas in Wales populations often peaked in the early 20th century. The town my Taid was born in has something like less than half the population it did at start of the 20th century. An extreme case of course.

I never expressed the idea that we were 'full'. I'm not even aware that it is some kind of UKIP slogan. It's been used in Australia where the population density is far, far less than that of the UK.

As I stated earlier, 'fullness' is an opinion not a quantifiable concept. Are we full at 10, 100 or 1,000 people per square kilometre?

To be honest, "being full" is codeword for "I don't want people with a wierd skin colour near me".

[Deleted]

Apr 24, 2016 19:35:20 GMT maxque said:

To be honest, "being full" is codeword for "I don't want people with a wierd skin colour near me".

A manifestly false and truly contemptible comment.

[East Anglian Lefty]

Given that the concept demonstrably isn't quantifiable, it may just be that those people using the phrase haven't actually thought about what it means.