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Ogmore
Apr 21, 2016 21:30:30 GMT
Post by East Anglian Lefty on Apr 21, 2016 21:30:30 GMT
You're not an ordinary voter. The fact that we don't respect you has no relevance to how we might canvass. Who is 'we'? You are only speaking for yourself, I'd imagine. Disrespecting others is not a particularly intellligent position to take. Far better to listen, learn and take stock. I imagine very few other people respect you. |
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Ogmore
Apr 21, 2016 21:31:15 GMT
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2016 21:31:15 GMT
Who is 'we'? You are only speaking for yourself, I'd imagine. Disrespecting others is not a particularly intellligent position to take. Far better to listen, learn and take stock. I imagine very few other people respect you. Why so? It's exactly this kind of attitude that puts people off voting Labour. However, I'm sure it goes down a treat in constituencies such as Ogmore, so please do carry on. |
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Ogmore
Apr 21, 2016 21:31:51 GMT
Post by East Anglian Lefty on Apr 21, 2016 21:31:51 GMT
Because I see no reason why you deserve any respect.
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Ogmore
Apr 21, 2016 21:38:41 GMT
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2016 21:38:41 GMT
Because I see no reason why you deserve any respect. Unless someone is a paedophile or something of that nature, there is no real reason to disrespect them. Everyone has their good and bad points, and everyone has their own story to tell. And just as importantly, disrespect someone, and they are liable to return the favour with interest. It's called 'karma'. |
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Ogmore
Apr 21, 2016 21:40:16 GMT
Post by East Anglian Lefty on Apr 21, 2016 21:40:16 GMT
Yes, but I think you're an abject moron, so I really have no interest in whether or not you respect me.
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Ogmore
Apr 21, 2016 21:54:17 GMT
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2016 21:54:17 GMT
Yes, but I think you're an abject moron, so I really have no interest in whether or not you respect me. There's no real answer to that, is there. I could get into a pissing contest with you, but don't really see the point. Have a pleasant evening. |
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
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Ogmore
Apr 21, 2016 23:04:10 GMT
Post by Sibboleth on Apr 21, 2016 23:04:10 GMT
You seem desperate to defeat me on some issue or other, Sibboleth. I'm like this with everyone  Many advocates of PR are morons who argue for PR for reasons of naked self-interest so, naturally, they use terrible arguments that, naturally, you feel drawn to yourself. Thanks! Happily I don't have a posh voice so this will never be a problem  |
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Ogmore
Apr 21, 2016 23:38:55 GMT
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2016 23:38:55 GMT
^I appear to have mixed up your posts with those of 'East Anglian Lefty' which might explain some of my comments.
Why assume that I would only support PR out of self-interest? I may also be in favour out of 'principle'.
Have I got any kind of point about Labour having lost touch with the Working Class, and UKIP being perceived as the party 'for' the less privileged?
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Post by gwynthegriff on Apr 22, 2016 10:56:32 GMT
Because I see no reason why you deserve any respect. Unless someone is a paedophile or something of that nature, there is no real reason to disrespect them. Everyone has their good and bad points, and everyone has their own story to tell. And just as importantly, disrespect someone, and they are liable to return the favour with interest. It's called 'karma'.
Now who's being quasi-religious? |
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Ogmore
Apr 22, 2016 10:58:16 GMT
Post by gwynthegriff on Apr 22, 2016 10:58:16 GMT
Have I got any kind of point about Labour having lost touch with the Working Class, and UKIP being perceived as the party 'for' the less privileged? Yes. No. |
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Ogmore
Apr 22, 2016 11:28:31 GMT
Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 11:28:31 GMT
Have I got any kind of point about Labour having lost touch with the Working Class, and UKIP being perceived as the party 'for' the less privileged? Yes. No. Care to elaborate a little? |
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Ogmore
Apr 22, 2016 12:15:45 GMT
Post by gwynthegriff on Apr 22, 2016 12:15:45 GMT
Care to elaborate a little? Yes, the Labour Party has lost part of its connection with the WC. No, UKIP is not placed to fill the gap. |
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Ogmore
Apr 22, 2016 12:31:24 GMT
Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 12:31:24 GMT
Care to elaborate a little? Yes, the Labour Party has lost part of its connection with the WC. No, UKIP is not placed to fill the gap. That doesn't cut it, I'm afraid.
Why do you believe UKIP are not placed to fill the gap? And if not UKIP, who else? |
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Ogmore
Apr 22, 2016 15:20:23 GMT
Post by gwynthegriff on Apr 22, 2016 15:20:23 GMT
Yes, the Labour Party has lost part of its connection with the WC. No, UKIP is not placed to fill the gap. , I'm afraid.
Why do you believe UKIP are not placed to fill the gap? And if not UKIP, who else? It really doesn't matter if it "cuts it" or not. It was a statement of opinion. I don't believe UKIP are placed to fill the gap because their ethos and leadership are emphatically not WC-friendly. In my opinion. |
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Ogmore
Apr 22, 2016 15:32:41 GMT
Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 15:32:41 GMT
It really doesn't matter if it "cuts it" or not. It was a statement of opinion. I don't believe UKIP are placed to fill the gap because their ethos and leadership are emphatically not WC-friendly. In my opinion. And my opinion, for what it's worth, is that they are. Presumably, however, debates on this board should attempt to extend beyond mere gainsaying (or personal abuse). |
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Post by carlton43 on Apr 22, 2016 15:48:22 GMT
Yes, it is. It's a very safe seat, of the sort that can only be lost when Labour is doing extremely badly and there is a challenging party with a broad coalition of support. The necessary conditions don't appear to apply, so it's unlikely to be lost. That doesn't make it undemocratic. Safe seats are by nature 'undemocratic' and rapidly turn into 'rotten boroughs'. UKIP are extremely unlikely to win, but the demographics are near perfect for them. One to watch for the future. Labour has lost its connection with the white Working Class. I can only see it being successful in metropolitan areas in future. Hopefully, a tipping point will be reached as happened in Scotland. Plaid will never be successful outside the Welsh speaking areas. Like Labour, it's a Middle-Class party, with little grasp of bread-and-butter issues. That is a totally absurdist position to hold. EAL has developed good reasons for general rebuttal and I agree. 'Safe Seat' is just a casual term we give to a seat where a settled and non volatile tend to give big majorities to one party. That is a mere reflection of who those electors feel and respond over time. It is as democratic as any other seat. There is nothing better about being marginal and in the seat changing hands on occasion. In fact it could to an extent be argued that marginal seats are far less democratic because a much greater proportion of the voting electorate don't get what they voted for! In a Liverpool Walton well over 70% of the voters got the representative of their choice which must be very very democratic? In fact I would contend that seat is no more or less democratic that City of Chester where a mere 0.1% is the margin. At first sight Chester is very undemocratic because half the electors don't get what they want........But because it is marginal they do to an extent in that each party gets to be representative for a while. If you were to move your target to safe cities (Liverpool) and safe regions (Scotland) then you would get a bit more traction. Labour dominate in Liverpool, but it was not always so. I remember large Lib/LD representation, and before that significant Conservative representation. In Scotland I remember Conservative - Labour half and half, Labour dominant and now it is SNP dominant. Nothing is forever. And whatever that electoral history tells us it is not that those seats, cities or areas are undemocratic. Labour win every seat in Liverpool. I am not happy about that but well done Labour. Democracy works. In every seat Labour can get out a big vote. And they win. Democracy at work. |
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Ogmore
Apr 22, 2016 19:03:11 GMT
Post by No Offence Alan on Apr 22, 2016 19:03:11 GMT
Have I got any kind of point about Labour having lost touch with the Working Class, and UKIP being perceived as the party 'for' the less privileged? No, Farage is perceived as a tax-hider from a City of London background. UKIP in Scotland's policies include a reduction to 30% income tax for those earning £45,300 to £55,000 p.a. Is that what the working class earn these days? |
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Ogmore
Apr 23, 2016 10:33:21 GMT
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2016 10:33:21 GMT
Yes, but I think you're an abject moron, so I really have no interest in whether or not you respect me. Whilst it is unsurprising that that you should be so obnoxiously angry I am a little surprised at your use of language. You have used the term "abject moron" as an insult. Now what is the definition of the word 'moron'? It is So the first definition is an offensive is clearly ableist. However what is the second definition. It is commonly used to describe people who are thought to be, or described as being, of low intelligence at such a level that although they fall short of the definition of mental retardation that their alleged low intelligence puts them, in some sense in the same bracket. It is always used as a term of abuse. In other words the second definition is also ableist. The word moron is clearly ableist in all its meanings. Now I don't usually mind if people are using politically incorrect terminology, it depends on the context in which it is used. Trump of course often uses ableist language (e.g. 'stupid', 'dummy' etc) to9 describe some of the people he doesn't like. What is so hypocritical from you is that you will describe people as 'cockroaches' because they have engaged in politically incorrect speech. At the same time you have used the most offensively ableist language with real anger and venom, which suggests that you are not using it simply as a cheap insult but that you have some deep seated ableist attitudes. It's gratuitous unpleasantness that adds nothing to any debate. On the other hand, it confirms my prejudices about Labour activists such as 'East Anglian Lefty'. I'd always wondered what happens to 'Student Grant' types on graduation:  |
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Post by greenchristian on Apr 23, 2016 12:05:59 GMT
Whilst it is unsurprising that that you should be so obnoxiously angry I am a little surprised at your use of language. You have used the term "abject moron" as an insult. Now what is the definition of the word 'moron'? It is So the first definition is an offensive is clearly ableist. However what is the second definition. It is commonly used to describe people who are thought to be, or described as being, of low intelligence at such a level that although they fall short of the definition of mental retardation that their alleged low intelligence puts them, in some sense in the same bracket. It is always used as a term of abuse. In other words the second definition is also ableist. The word moron is clearly ableist in all its meanings. Now I don't usually mind if people are using politically incorrect terminology, it depends on the context in which it is used. Trump of course often uses ableist language (e.g. 'stupid', 'dummy' etc) to9 describe some of the people he doesn't like. What is so hypocritical from you is that you will describe people as 'cockroaches' because they have engaged in politically incorrect speech. At the same time you have used the most offensively ableist language with real anger and venom, which suggests that you are not using it simply as a cheap insult but that you have some deep seated ableist attitudes. It's gratuitous unpleasantness that adds nothing to any debate. On the other hand, it confirms my prejudices about Labour activists such as 'East Anglian Lefty'. I'd always wondered what happens to 'Student Grant' types on graduation: You're complaining about gratuitous unpleasantness and doing so in a post whose entire actual content is gratuitous unpleasantness?  |
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Ogmore
Apr 23, 2016 12:28:47 GMT
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2016 12:28:47 GMT
You're complaining about gratuitous unpleasantness and doing so in a post whose entire actual content is gratuitous unpleasantness? Yes. I could call you an 'abject moron', but will refrain from doing so. I don't like your posts tbh, but I don't believe this sufficient cause to gratuitously insult you. Btw, the entire actual content is not 'gratuitous unpleasantness', merely the dig in the last line. However, the dig illustrates how Labour activists are perceived by some in Working Class areas. |
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