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Post by Devonian on Jan 31, 2015 9:00:50 GMT
Independent Greeks
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Post by Devonian on Feb 1, 2015 9:16:37 GMT
The leader of Independent Greeks has made a not-very-crpytic remark about "the theories of two extremes are over". Whatever could he mean by that... "I fancy a ride in a ministerial BMW" I think. Well then he's out of luck. Giorgos Katrougkalos the Minister of Administrative Reform has ordered the sale of the ministerial limos. If you fancy a drive in Evangelos Venizelos' old car, a BMW with satnav and bulletproof glass, its yours for only 750,000 Euros.
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Post by markgoodair on Feb 1, 2015 10:22:20 GMT
"I fancy a ride in a ministerial BMW" I think. Well then he's out of luck. Giorgos Katrougkalos the Minister of Administrative Reform has ordered the sale of the ministerial limos. If you fancy a drive in Evangelos Venizelos' old car, a BMW with satnav and bulletproof glass, its yours for only 750,000 Euros. Surely that is one 0 too many?
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Post by Devonian on Feb 1, 2015 10:37:39 GMT
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mboy
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Post by mboy on Feb 1, 2015 15:55:02 GMT
well lookie here, from the Julian Assange thread two years ago. Would we really have imagined that nothing would have changed with either Greece or Assange since? The cost to the UK of trying and failing to arrest Assange is over £6m. He is wanted in Sweden on charges of "non consensual sexual activity within a consensual sexual relationship." Actually, he's not wanted on "charges" of anything, as no charges have been laid - he's wanted for standard police questioning on the matter. And I'm increasingly unsure why we aren't sending the bill for this ridiculous policing of the embassy to the Swedish prosecutor who refuses to come here to question him. Even the Swedish legal establishment is now saying it wouldn't be unorthodox for her to question him here. It's increasingly clear that she doesn't want to because she thinks she will have "lost" (in some way) if she "gives in" on this. So why is the UK tax-payer literally paying £millions to prevent a personal loss of face of a stubborn Swedish prosecutor? Outragous.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 1, 2015 17:12:01 GMT
Actually, he's not wanted on "charges" of anything, as no charges have been laid - he's wanted for standard police questioning on the matter. Oh dear, I'm afraid you've fallen for one of the more pervasive of the Assange myths. Or "lies" to use the technical term. The Swedish do not simply want to have their equivalent of PC Plod ask Assange a few questions over tea and biscuits. You can't get a European Arrest Warrant for that. The clue is in the name: "arrest". The Swedish Police investigation has got to the point that they need to arrest a suspect, then question him, and then hold him in custody or on remand while charges are considered. The Swedish system does not work in the same way as the England and Wales one does; the charges are only formulated immediately before the trial, and can't be formulated until the suspect is in Swedish custody. You clearly have a serious problem understanding what is actually going on. Of course they can question witnesses anywhere, but Assange isn't simply a witness: he's a suspect. No Swedish authority has any right to arrest someone within another jurisdiction, let alone when they are on diplomatic premises of a third country.
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mboy
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Post by mboy on Feb 2, 2015 8:54:14 GMT
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 2, 2015 9:56:05 GMT
I know you always think you know better than the actual legal experts You're being utterly shameless in your distortions. What I am doing is telling you what the legal experts actually say. You can't be bothered to look properly at the situation because you're a hopeless twit. What you've posted does not advance your claim one bit. The story was given in the context of Assange's appeal against the detention order, in which Assange's lawyers contended that the prosecutor's failure to consider the option of interviewing in the embassy meant that the charges should be lifted. This is what the chief prosecutor actually said: www.aklagare.se/In-English/Media/News-in-English1/Statement-by-the-prosecutor-in-the-Assange-case/And that previous statement is here: "My view has been, and remains the case, that he should make himself available for interview and, if needed, trial for the offences to which he is suspected of in Sweden dating back to August 2010". As it happens the Swedish Court of Appeal ruled in November 2014 upholding the detention order. Here's the judgment: www.svea.se/Domstolar/sveahovratt/Pressmeddelanden/Order%20%C3%96%208290-14.pdfEven if the Swedish did lift their order (and the European Arrest Warrant was cancelled), Julian Assange would appear to have questions to answer from the British authorities concerning offences under the Bail Act 1976 as amended by the Extradition Act 2003. Given the Swedish authorities have responsibility for their own position, it can only be resolved in the UK in two circumstances: 1) Assange goes to Sweden. 2) The British authorities decide to let a rape suspect escape. The first is what should happen. If the second happens we should hang our heads in shame for allowing such a thing. I don't know what this "your lot" is about as I'm answering for myself. And you are being a complete fool to try to turn it into a party issue.
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mboy
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Post by mboy on Feb 2, 2015 10:34:06 GMT
Your mask is slipping David; I've often noticed that your rudeness increases in proportion with your doubt on your position.
I want Assange to be questioned, as soon as possible. If needed he should then be charged. If guilty he should be jailed: I'm not a cheerleader for him. But I do object to an increasingly huge bill being run up because the Swedish prosecutor refuses to do something that the Swedish legal establishment now admits is possible - which is for him to be questioned in the UK. The problem here is that, like so many things, the impasse has become about "winning", rather than about the issue.
There obviously exists a 3rd option that almost every admits can now happen:
3) The prosecutor questions Assange in the embassy.
It's a simple, pragmatic, and reasonable solution. It will resolve the issue and get justice, one way or another, for the women concerned. It will save lots of money. It's legal and allowable. The prosecutor's (and yours) refusal to do it is not just obtuse, but irrational.
PS That money could be spent elsewhere in the policing budget, doing good stuff - protecting people, making them safer, preventing rapes, etc.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 2, 2015 10:46:55 GMT
What produces immediate rudeness on my part, and entirely deserved rudeness, are two things: 1) Where in a discussion I state something as a fact, and it is treated as merely my opinion; 2) Where an out of context gibe is made against my political party in the context of a discussion in which I'm commenting as an individual. And you did both, which is why you got both barrels.
It ought to be fairly clear even to you that Prosecutor Ny questioning Assange in the Ecuadorian Embassy wouldn't actually advance anything by an Ångström, let alone resolve the situation. Any answer that Assange has to the accusations, he has already been able to give. The prosecutors want to question him after arrest so that the case can be brought to trial, and that can't happen in the Embassy.
If you disagree with that, please tell me what happens after Assange is questioned in the embassy. But the only possible resolutions are either for the case to go ahead (which means Assange has to go to Sweden) or for the case to be dropped.
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mboy
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Post by mboy on Feb 2, 2015 10:58:46 GMT
Yes, those will be the two next options. Well done! If Assange is indicted the situation changes substantially.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 2, 2015 11:05:04 GMT
Yes, those will be the two next options. Well done! If Assange is indicted the situation changes substantially. As I keep telling you, he can't be 'indicted' until he is within Swedish jurisdiction. Nothing can move forward in the case at all, until Assange is in Sweden. Do you accept that as a matter of fact?
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iain
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Post by iain on Feb 2, 2015 11:07:09 GMT
What produces immediate rudeness on my part, and entirely deserved rudeness, are two things: 1) Where in a discussion I state something as a fact, and it is treated as merely my opinion Yeah it's annoying isn't it. Things like the bedroom tax not being a tax.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 2, 2015 11:16:50 GMT
What produces immediate rudeness on my part, and entirely deserved rudeness, are two things: 1) Where in a discussion I state something as a fact, and it is treated as merely my opinion Yeah it's annoying isn't it. Things like the bedroom tax not being a tax. Though I tend to notice if people are trying to do it deliberately. Nice try there.
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mboy
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Post by mboy on Feb 2, 2015 11:19:40 GMT
Nothing can move forward in the case at all, until Assange is in Sweden. Do you accept that as a matter of fact? Members of the Swedish Bar Association don't agree: Like the bedroom tax pointed out above, we all know you aren't ever going to move on this - even after the Swedish prosecutor moves, you will still refuse to move. This is your way. Fine - watch the money being wasted, day by day. This conversation is at an end.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 2, 2015 11:27:37 GMT
Nothing can move forward in the case at all, until Assange is in Sweden. Do you accept that as a matter of fact? The Swedish Bar Association doesn't agree: What she's saying is she thinks the case could be dropped completely.
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john07
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Post by john07 on Feb 2, 2015 18:04:07 GMT
Very interesting but bugger all to do with Greece.
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Feb 9, 2015 0:20:59 GMT
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Post by Devonian on Feb 14, 2015 0:49:14 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2015 8:38:54 GMT
As post-election win bumps go, that's a big one. Syriza should make the most of this moment, because it's not going to last.
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