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Post by Pete Whitehead on Oct 16, 2014 9:42:35 GMT
Dead birds? Sounds more suitable for the Lib Dems
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Post by lbarnes on Oct 20, 2014 18:55:54 GMT
It should also be pointed out that plenty of RC Labour MPs nevertheless have good records on supporting equal rights for gay people. Which only throws Dobbin's poor one into even sharper relief. |
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Post by thirdchill on Oct 20, 2014 19:51:53 GMT
It should also be pointed out that plenty of RC Labour MPs nevertheless have good records on supporting equal rights for gay people. Which only throws Dobbin's poor one into even sharper relief. Not really. There are a large number of catholics with quite liberal views on certain issues, notably sexuality. Dobbin's view is at the more conservative end, and obviously he voted accordingly. Both the more liberal catholic view and Dobbin's views are perfectly valid. And as much as I may disagree with the more socially conservative views on gay rights, it would be a poorer house of commons if that voice wasn't present. |
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right
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Post by right on Oct 20, 2014 20:52:21 GMT
Which only throws Dobbin's poor one into even sharper relief. Not really. There are a large number of catholics with quite liberal views on certain issues, notably sexuality. Dobbin's view is at the more conservative end, and obviously he voted accordingly. Both the more liberal catholic view and Dobbin's views are perfectly valid. And as much as I may disagree with the more socially conservative views on gay rights, it would be a poorer house of commons if that voice wasn't present. The "liberal" or "conservative" Catholic view is somewhat misleading. To use an extreme example, a Catholic MP who calls for gays to be executed is dissenting from Church teaching, he or she is not being "conservative". It's probably easier to say that Dobbins' views were orthodox as they were in line with church teaching, while other Catholic MPs were dissenting or heterodox. |
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Post by lbarnes on Oct 20, 2014 22:53:36 GMT
I naively thought he was a Labour MP and not a Catholic one. But then one quick look through the list of people he employed on his Parliamentary staff disabused me of that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 0:00:40 GMT
Look at his voting record in the round, not just on what you consider his "socially conservative" views. He was a solid left-winger of the type seemingly becoming rarer in Labour circles. As for his parliamentary staff - are we seriously having a faith test now? If you are, then Labour would be losing a lot of activists, as would the Trade Union movement (including TUC General Secretary Frances O'Grady), the professional bodies, nursing, the police and a vast tract of charity workers.
Jim Dobbin was a socialist because of his faith and his local party has a big chunk of councillors and activists of a similar background.
Jim was my friend, for whom I grieve, and a hard-working MP who didn't waver in his views to invite a climb up the greasy pole. I find one or two of the foregoing comments pretty daft and lbarnes above one to be particularly so. In working class Labour areas, Catholics are heavily represented in the Labour Party, nothing to be disabused about.
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maxque
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Post by maxque on Oct 21, 2014 1:18:24 GMT
I naively thought he was a Labour MP and not a Catholic one. But then one quick look through the list of people he employed on his Parliamentary staff disabused me of that. How... primitive. You want to repeal the Roman Catholic Relief Act, too? |
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Post by thirdchill on Oct 21, 2014 7:28:21 GMT
Not really. There are a large number of catholics with quite liberal views on certain issues, notably sexuality. Dobbin's view is at the more conservative end, and obviously he voted accordingly. Both the more liberal catholic view and Dobbin's views are perfectly valid. And as much as I may disagree with the more socially conservative views on gay rights, it would be a poorer house of commons if that voice wasn't present. The "liberal" or "conservative" Catholic view is somewhat misleading. To use an extreme example, a Catholic MP who calls for gays to be executed is dissenting from Church teaching, he or she is not being "conservative". It's probably easier to say that Dobbins' views were orthodox as they were in line with church teaching, while other Catholic MPs were dissenting or heterodox. Yep you are right, I should have perhaps used the word 'Orthodox' rather than 'Conservative' in relation to this. |
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Post by lbarnes on Oct 21, 2014 18:02:28 GMT
I would hate for a faith test to be imposed - which is exactly why I have grave misgivings about Dobbins's employment practices in his own office.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 18:44:51 GMT
I would hate for a faith test to be imposed - which is exactly why I have grave misgivings about Dobbins's employment practices in his own office. What tosh - Councillor Colin Lambert worked in his office, no Catholic he. I have no idea of the religion of either Councillor Alan Godson or Brian Leather, although I concede that his wife Pat is. Where do you get this from? |
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Post by Merseymike on Oct 21, 2014 19:47:05 GMT
Which only throws Dobbin's poor one into even sharper relief. Not really. There are a large number of catholics with quite liberal views on certain issues, notably sexuality. Dobbin's view is at the more conservative end, and obviously he voted accordingly. Both the more liberal catholic view and Dobbin's views are perfectly valid. And as much as I may disagree with the more socially conservative views on gay rights, it would be a poorer house of commons if that voice wasn't present. I would simply they were not represented in the Labour party. I certainly wouldn't have voted for Dobbin. Joe Benton's stance certainly contributed to his deselection, although his unwillingness to ever discuss it with his local party didn't help |
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right
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Post by right on Oct 21, 2014 21:58:41 GMT
Not really. There are a large number of catholics with quite liberal views on certain issues, notably sexuality. Dobbin's view is at the more conservative end, and obviously he voted accordingly. Both the more liberal catholic view and Dobbin's views are perfectly valid. And as much as I may disagree with the more socially conservative views on gay rights, it would be a poorer house of commons if that voice wasn't present. I would simply they were not represented in the Labour party. I certainly wouldn't have voted for Dobbin. Joe Benton's stance certainly contributed to his deselection, although his unwillingness to ever discuss it with his local party didn't help Socialism is particularly distasteful when it forgets the most marginalised. |
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Post by kaboom on Oct 22, 2014 8:56:20 GMT
Can anyone help me with an argument I've been having on calculating 'swing'. The media were quoting extensively about an 18% swing from Labour to UKIP. How can there be a swing when Labour's vote went up percentage wise ? The HOC definition is only based on a party actually losing share of the vote.
Cheers
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Post by La Fontaine on Oct 22, 2014 9:18:40 GMT
Can an yone help me with an argument I've been having on calculating 'swing'. The media were quoting extensively about an 18% swing from Labour to UKIP. How can there be a swing when Labour's vote went up percentage wise ? The HOC definition is only based on a party actually losing share of the vote. Cheers An increase is a negative decrease. If one goes up 37 percent and the other 1 percent, the swing is 18 percent. I'm not a BSc (Maths) for nothing, though it was almost nothing. |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Oct 22, 2014 11:34:38 GMT
What tosh - Councillor Colin Lambert worked in his office, no Catholic he. I have no idea of the religion of either Councillor Alan Godson or Brian Leather, although I concede that his wife Pat is. Where do you get this from? Perhaps impeccable sources. Don't you mean "infallible"?  |
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Crimson King
Lib Dem
Be nice to each other and sing in tune
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Post by Crimson King on Oct 23, 2014 13:39:43 GMT
Can an yone help me with an argument I've been having on calculating 'swing'. The media were quoting extensively about an 18% swing from Labour to UKIP. How can there be a swing when Labour's vote went up percentage wise ? The HOC definition is only based on a party actually losing share of the vote. Cheers An increase is a negative decrease. If one goes up 37 percent and the other 1 percent, the swing is 18 percent. I'm not a BSc (Maths) for nothing, though it was almost nothing. but of course it is irrelevant because as David B will no doubt be along to tell you in a minute swing can only be calculated between Lab and Con |
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Sibboleth
Labour
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Post by Sibboleth on Oct 25, 2014 16:27:03 GMT
He has a point.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2014 13:05:33 GMT
Not necessarily accurate, but he has a point. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 21, 2015 22:26:49 GMT
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Jan 22, 2015 1:00:47 GMT
How many courses were there and how big was each shot? That's a fair amount of booze to have had in the system from just shots taken with food.
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