Heywood and Middleton

[Deleted]

Jim Dobbin has sadly died aged 73 whilst in Poland.

[The Bishop]

No speculation about date etc yet?

[lbarnes]

I'm not sure how the new timetable system will work in this case. Presumably there will be delay in holding the funeral because the body will have to be repatriated.

[neilm]

No, because EAL would tell us off.

What we can say for certain, though, is that the Labour victor will make a speech at the declaration saying something along the lines of 'this is a sign that the public overwhelmingly reject the coalitions cuts, bedroom tax etc etc.'

[carlton43]

Sept 8, 2014 16:56:35 GMT neilm said:

No, because EAL would tell us off.

What we can say for certain, though, is that the Labour victor will make a speech at the declaration saying something along the lines of 'this is a sign that the public overwhelmingly reject the coalitions cuts, bedroom tax etc etc.'

Oh yes! He will be all over you like rash with his prissy Victorianism.

[Deleted]

I created this thread because there is a precedent for doing so when an MP passes away. I personally don't want to go into too much speculation about the impending by-election at this early stage. However, it's up to anyone interested what they feel fit to say, and when.

It's certainly worth saying one or two words about Jim Dobbin, an interesting man. I'm not sure whether it would be accurate to describe him as on the right of the Labour Party, but he was a Roman Catholic Scot (a friend of Tom Clarke) and against abortion and gay marriage, an increasing rarity especially in Labour ranks. He wasn't even keen on the establishment of the Scottish Parliament.

Incidentally, his predecessor Jim Callaghan is living at the age 87. I'm not sure what his current state of health is but I believe he still lives in the area.

[greenchristian]

Sept 8, 2014 18:12:26 GMT swanarcadian said:

It's certainly worth saying one or two words about Jim Dobbin, an interesting man. I'm not sure whether it would be accurate to describe him as on the right of the Labour Party, but he was a Roman Catholic Scot (a friend of Tom Clarke) and against abortion and gay marriage, an increasing rarity especially in Labour ranks. He wasn't even keen on the establishment of the Scottish Parliament.

I wouldn't describe any of those stances as being on left/right issues.

[thirdchill]

Sept 8, 2014 19:09:28 GMT greenchristian said:

Sept 8, 2014 18:12:26 GMT swanarcadian said:

It's certainly worth saying one or two words about Jim Dobbin, an interesting man. I'm not sure whether it would be accurate to describe him as on the right of the Labour Party, but he was a Roman Catholic Scot (a friend of Tom Clarke) and against abortion and gay marriage, an increasing rarity especially in Labour ranks. He wasn't even keen on the establishment of the Scottish Parliament.

I wouldn't describe any of those stances as being on left/right issues.

There was quite a nasty piece about Jim Dobbin on the Pink News website. Am disgusted by it, and would rather not link to it at this stage.

[Merseymike]

He was culturally conservative . I think it depends if you class left-right as being all about economics. I don't.

He was the sort of MP who will rarely be selected in future with views well to the left on economic issues but socially conservative - I think most Labour candidates these days don't hold those views

Personally, I would not have voted for him and I don't want people with his views as Labour MP's. The Pink News article simply gave details of his beliefs with quotes. Why should that be considered nasty - it was his prejudiced opinions that were nasty!

[Davıd Boothroyd]

It should also be pointed out that plenty of RC Labour MPs nevertheless have good records on supporting equal rights for gay people.

[Sibboleth]

Can't pretend to agree with all his views, but I'd always take a Dobbin over a Danczuk...

[carlton43]

So. today it is alright to talk about him on a personal basis, yet three days ago my speculation about the situation in the constituency was all wrong. You are very strange people.

[Deleted]

Sept 8, 2014 23:11:02 GMT Merseymike said:

He was culturally conservative . I think it depends if you class left-right as being all about economics. I don't.

He was the sort of MP who will rarely be selected in future with views well to the left on economic issues but socially conservative - I think most Labour candidates these days don't hold those views

Personally, I would not have voted for him and I don't want people with his views as Labour MP's. The Pink News article simply gave details of his beliefs with quotes. Why should that be considered nasty - it was his prejudiced opinions that were nasty!

So are we on the same wing or I somewhat to your left (ID cards, smoking in pubs etc.)?

[Merseymike]

Sept 9, 2014 18:57:19 GMT joe said:

Sept 8, 2014 23:11:02 GMT Merseymike said:

He was culturally conservative . I think it depends if you class left-right as being all about economics. I don't.

He was the sort of MP who will rarely be selected in future with views well to the left on economic issues but socially conservative - I think most Labour candidates these days don't hold those views

Personally, I would not have voted for him and I don't want people with his views as Labour MP's. The Pink News article simply gave details of his beliefs with quotes. Why should that be considered nasty - it was his prejudiced opinions that were nasty!

So are we on the same wing or I somewhat to your left (ID cards, smoking in pubs etc.)?

I would see those as aspects of libertarianism - about individual freedom. The left tend not to be as focused on individualism and would also take note of the common good - so its the right to smoke in pubs vs the right to go to a pub without having to sit in a room with billows of smoke. Id cards seem to split right and left alike and are particularly suspected here. The Spanish or Germans wouldn't begin to understand our objection! I don't have a principled position. ... I simply think the government has all the information anyway and personally it would be very convenient. However I don't have the fear of the state that someone from the libertarian right would have

A left cultural position is focused more on rights for minorities discriminated against than necessarily looking at the issues as just about individual rights.

[Andrew_S]

"Labour 'planning early byelection after Jim Dobbin death to foil Ukip'
Party wants to kickstart process so Heywood and Middleton poll can be held on day of the Clacton vote, officials say

Labour strategists are understood to be planning to stage an early byelection in a vacant Greater Manchester seat in an attempt to minimise the potential of an embarrassing threat from the UK Independence party."

www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/09/labour-early-byelection-plan-jim-dobbin-death-foil-ukip

[Davıd Boothroyd]

I think that would mean moving the writ tomorrow and making sure it got up to Rochdale Town Hall the same day.

[Devonian]

I notice this from the Guardian article linked to above

The plan to trigger a byelection so soon after an MP's death is unusual and parties normally wait until after the funeral.

It is understood that a senior Labour figure will seek the consent of Dobbin's family before any attempt to begin the process of setting a timetable for a byelection.

I'm just wondering if they were planning to seek this consent before or after they discussed this plan with a journalist from the Guardian?

[Andrew_S]

I don't like to make overtly partisan comments but this would look a bit desperate IMO if the story is correct (which you can't always assume).

[andrea]

They moved the writ today for 9th October.


2014 locals

Lab 39.9%
UKIP 24.4%
Con 21.4%
LD 9.8%

Lab won 7 wards, Con 2 and LibDems 1. UKIP stood in 8 wards.

I guess UKIP could have carried the constituency in Euro elections. Maybe Pete Whitehead could estimate the notionals.

[Devil Wincarnate]

Can't see this going UKIP in a million years, sounds very much like spin.  Labour hold with reduced majority.