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Post by Merseymike on Sept 8, 2014 10:01:59 GMT
I accept that it might be tricky in Oxford. Generally I don't think its a good idea to have wards where the vast majority of residents are temporary students and in a couple of cases these have been deliberately created - see Lancaster. The ward in Lancaster is the university campus, which happens to be roughly the right size for a two-member ward (or three under the new boundaries, with a new hall that was completed after the last review). There is not really a sensible way to draw the boundary which does not make it student dominated as the campus is clearly defined and (obviously) self-contained and any split between wards would be arbitrary. And notwithstanding their apathy about local politics, there is no reason why students shouldn't be identified as a community of interest like any other, especially in a place like Lancaster where the university has a significant social/economic impact on the city. When I was there the campus was part of a three-councillor ward - Scotforth East. In my view creating a University ward is not a good idea. Turnouts are very low. And elections are very rarely contested on actual local council issues because the university has become ever more self contained over the years. I was there for a training event last year and it would be quite possible to live there for a 12 week term without ever leaving. There is also the problem that because of when the registers are drawn up those on the register are only actually in thecward for about half the year given that university terms don't coincide. So you can get situations when elections are held with hardly anyone there. |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Sept 10, 2014 13:42:18 GMT
If you don't create a student ward in a university city, then non-student electors in student-heavy wards are effectively significantly over-represented. With a student ward, councillors have at least to try to appeal to students. I know in Cambridge there are several councillors in city centre wards who openly ignore student electors.
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Post by greenchristian on Sept 10, 2014 22:08:03 GMT
If you don't create a student ward in a university city, then non-student electors in student-heavy wards are effectively significantly over-represented. With a student ward, councillors have at least to try to appeal to students. I know in Cambridge there are several councillors in city centre wards who openly ignore student electors. Although there are cases where it is impossible to create a student ward. In Coventry, Warwick University is far too small to be a ward on its own (especially as half the halls of residence are over the county border), and whilst almost all of the Coventry University students live in the same ward as the uni, they still only make up about half the population. |
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Post by carlton43 on Sept 10, 2014 22:18:11 GMT
If you don't create a student ward in a university city, then non-student electors in student-heavy wards are effectively significantly over-represented. With a student ward, councillors have at least to try to appeal to students. I know in Cambridge there are several councillors in city centre wards who openly ignore student electors. Although there are cases where it is impossible to create a student ward. In Coventry, Warwick University is far too small to be a ward on its own (especially as half the halls of residence are over the county border), and whilst almost all of the Coventry University students live in the same ward as the uni, they still only make up about half the population. What about taking a central decision that all students should register at their original home location and stay registered there until they establish a new non student residence? There is no real reason to permit a large group of mainly young transitory residents (only there part of each year) (only there for 3/4 years in the main) to dominate the political decisions of towns/cities that they probably have little short term let alone medium term interest in. Many will be very campus based and hardly impinge upon or be impinged upon by the area. They have much more of a root and stake in the original home area. Put bluntly why should they have a say in how that town is run merely because they study there? |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Sept 10, 2014 22:24:45 GMT
Given that one of the complaints from permanent residents of university towns is that the student body sees itself as entirely cut off from the local community, how is denying them any participation in local democracy going to help?
Would you make a distinction between undergraduates and postgraduates?
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Post by carlton43 on Sept 10, 2014 23:13:11 GMT
Given that one of the complaints from permanent residents of university towns is that the student body sees itself as entirely cut off from the local community, how is denying them any participation in local democracy going to help? Would you make a distinction between undergraduates and postgraduates? In truth it will neither help nor hinder as the simple act of voting will have no affect on the permanent residents until or unless it outvoted them and then it could be seen to be interfering. By seeking involvement I don't think the permanent residents are primarily hoping for more votes from them do you? Yes I might treat post-grads differently but it would need a lot more thought and I would need more facts and stats. But in general terms I think it would be far better for students to vote 'at home' like expats, armed services and sundry others. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Sept 11, 2014 7:48:25 GMT
I accept that it might be tricky in Oxford. Generally I don't think its a good idea to have wards where the vast majority of residents are temporary students and in a couple of cases these have been deliberately created - see Lancaster. It's tricky indeed, but I entirely agree with you, it's not a good thing as it stands. Oxford could be redrawn more easily than imagined. Without wanting to score a political point here, Oxford Labour would have the most to lose. If the university areas were spread across the local seats, it'd be quite Green/Lib Dem, albeit with a competitive Labour presence and a heavy Conservative vote that wouldn't get elected. |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Sept 11, 2014 8:30:59 GMT
Although there are cases where it is impossible to create a student ward. In Coventry, Warwick University is far too small to be a ward on its own (especially as half the halls of residence are over the county border), and whilst almost all of the Coventry University students live in the same ward as the uni, they still only make up about half the population. What about taking a central decision that all students should register at their original home location and stay registered there until they establish a new non student residence? There is no real reason to permit a large group of mainly young transitory residents (only there part of each year) (only there for 3/4 years in the main) to dominate the political decisions of towns/cities that they probably have little short term let alone medium term interest in. Many will be very campus based and hardly impinge upon or be impinged upon by the area. They have much more of a root and stake in the original home area. Put bluntly why should they have a say in how that town is run merely because they study there? There are very few towns where students dominate the political scene - the behaviour of university cities tends to be guided much more by those employed by universities than those educated there. Moreover, most students do not live on campus after the first year and a high percentage will continue to be employed in the city throughout the holidays, so the idea that they're almost entirely separate only really holds true for Oxbridge. For parliamentary elections they probably have more stake in general elections, but then again where that's the case they'll normally stay registered at home anyway and vote there. For local elections they have much more stake in the town where they are ordinarily resident, namely the city they're being educated at. Given that one of the complaints from permanent residents of university towns is that the student body sees itself as entirely cut off from the local community, how is denying them any participation in local democracy going to help? Would you make a distinction between undergraduates and postgraduates? In truth it will neither help nor hinder as the simple act of voting will have no affect on the permanent residents until or unless it outvoted them and then it could be seen to be interfering. By seeking involvement I don't think the permanent residents are primarily hoping for more votes from them do you? Yes I might treat post-grads differently but it would need a lot more thought and I would need more facts and stats. But in general terms I think it would be far better for students to vote 'at home' like expats, armed services and sundry others. Oy vey. |
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