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Post by markgoodair on Sept 8, 2014 18:16:32 GMT
It's increasingly likely that the Feminist party may scrape into parliament. I don't know but I assume it is a bit strident and leftist and possibly green? Thus it will only prosper at expense of the more mainstream leftist parties? So overall effect may be neutral in 'left-right' terms with perhaps a small downside to the left? Yes they want amongst other things are raised taxes and a 6 hour working day. |
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Post by Richard Cromwell on Sept 8, 2014 19:05:38 GMT
Per the suggestion of Devil Wincarnate, I've decided to present my thoughts here: The Sweden Democrats are liberals, essentially. Their concerns, quite understandably, are that the social democracies of Scandinavia are under threat from unfiltered mass immigration. Stockholm, capital of the world's most progressive nation (in feminist terms), has (in the space of a few short years) become the rape capital of Europe. That it's an immigration problem, with the number of non-immigrant rapists remaining at a negligible rate, is undeniable but quoting the relevant statistics has, on at least one occasion, resulted in the conviction of Swedish politician for hate speech. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 19:06:17 GMT
It's increasingly likely that the Feminist party may scrape into parliament. I don't know but I assume it is a bit strident and leftist and possibly green? Thus it will only prosper at expense of the more mainstream leftist parties? So overall effect may be neutral in 'left-right' terms with perhaps a small downside to the left? Their leader Gudrun Schyman was previously leader of the Left Party from 1993 to 2003. Feminist Initiative is something of a personality cult for her. So in other words, yes, pretty much. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Sept 9, 2014 8:10:17 GMT
Per the suggestion of Devil Wincarnate, I've decided to present my thoughts here: The Sweden Democrats are liberals, essentially. Their concerns, quite understandably, are that the social democracies of Scandinavia are under threat from unfiltered mass immigration. Stockholm, capital of the world's most progressive nation (in feminist terms), has (in the space of a few short years) become the rape capital of Europe. Arguably they're closer to being Fortuynist than fascist as portrayed then? Or something more complex? |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Sept 10, 2014 8:29:20 GMT
Final major poll appears to indicate the following:
- The death of the Centre Party looks to have been overstated.
- Feminist Initiative looking unlikely to enter the Riksdag.
- SD looking solid around 10%.
- Green Party polling is all over the place but again 10% looking likely.
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Post by Richard Cromwell on Sept 10, 2014 12:25:50 GMT
Per the suggestion of Devil Wincarnate, I've decided to present my thoughts here: The Sweden Democrats are liberals, essentially. Their concerns, quite understandably, are that the social democracies of Scandinavia are under threat from unfiltered mass immigration. Stockholm, capital of the world's most progressive nation (in feminist terms), has (in the space of a few short years) become the rape capital of Europe. Arguably they're closer to being Fortuynist than fascist as portrayed then? Or something more complex? Yes, they're certainly closer to Fortuyn. Essentially, they're cultural liberals without falling into the trap of moral relativism; they believe that European ideas of tolerance and liberty are incompatible with Islam. It'd be a stretch, but I'd see a clear connection to Cameron's "muscular liberalism" if it weren't all just rhetoric on his part. |
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Post by Merseymike on Sept 11, 2014 17:42:30 GMT
I don't agree with that.
Fortuyn's party - and indeed the Freedom Party - both are anti-Islam but are explicitly pro-gay, pro-women's equality and pro-euthanasia - they argue that the netherlands are both christian and humanist, and defend those positions against islam which they regard as neither
The SD's are far more conventionally right wing - they may say they support the rights of sexual minorities, which is almost a given in Sweden anyway , but they are opposed to the 'homosex lobby' and only ever talk about LGB issues in the context of Islam. They have also opposed same sex adoptions.
They are much more conventionally nationalist and social conservative
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Post by Richard Cromwell on Sept 11, 2014 19:12:00 GMT
I don't agree with that. Fortuyn's party - and indeed the Freedom Party - both are anti-Islam but are explicitly pro-gay, pro-women's equality and pro-euthanasia - they argue that the netherlands are both christian and humanist, and defend those positions against islam which they regard as neither The SD's are far more conventionally right wing - they may say they support the rights of sexual minorities, which is almost a given in Sweden anyway , but they are opposed to the 'homosex lobby' and only ever talk about LGB issues in the context of Islam. They have also opposed same sex adoptions. They are much more conventionally nationalist and social conservative That's a fair criticism if you assume that I'm using the term liberal to mean, specifically, social liberal. I'm actually using it to refer to classical liberalism, as I was brought into this discussion to debunk the nonsense position that the Sweden Democrats are "fascist". The liberal-conservative dichotomy, which your describing, is about attitudes and tolerances for particular cultural practices. The liberal-fascist dichotomy, which I'm describing, is about attitudes on the roles and responsibilities of government. The Sweden Democrats are, and you point this out yourself, classically liberal (they believe in civil rights which protect people from government). To, further explain, would you strip Gladstone of his liberalism because of his lack of any kind of initiative to decriminalise sodomy? As for where the Sweden Democrats and the Freedom Party diverge, it's where they should be expected to do so; all down to the particular national cultures of their respective countries. A genuine traditionalist in the Netherlands is, by definition, going to have relaxed/liberal attitudes towards prostitution, homosexuality and drug use. This, less so, the case in Sweden; but also note that the Sweden Democrats will defend gay rights against Islamic attack. As a point of comparison, Britain's nationalist faction (the BNP) has never been gay-friendly despite our national culture being, now, very accepting (it represents an anti-social disconnect from reality which neither the Freedom Party nor the Sweden Democrats share in common with them). |
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Post by Merseymike on Sept 11, 2014 20:13:00 GMT
I take your point - but I'd say that the Sweden Democrats are much more 'socially conservative' than 'economically liberal'. And they have had some links with the French NF.
Sweden has pretty progressive social attitudes in the main too
I think what the FP and the SD do share is opposition to the presence of Islam and Muslims in their country. I would argue that is their main focus of existence
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,028
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Post by Sibboleth on Sept 14, 2014 18:18:48 GMT
Exit poll...
Social Democrats 31.1, Greens 7.1, Left 6.6
Moderates 22.2, Centre 6.5, People's Party 6.0, Christian Democrats 5.0
Sweden Democrats 10.5
Feminist Initiative 4.0
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Post by Andrew_S on Sept 14, 2014 18:23:35 GMT
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Post by Devonian on Sept 14, 2014 18:33:22 GMT
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Post by Devonian on Sept 14, 2014 18:38:11 GMT
Another exit poll, this one from YouGov  |
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Post by Andrew_S on Sept 14, 2014 19:41:55 GMT
Something odd going on with the Swedish election.
The exit poll orginally put the Swedish Democrats on 10.5% but the projection now seems to be around 15% after some real votes counted.
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Post by iainbhx on Sept 14, 2014 19:45:16 GMT
Something odd going on with the Swedish election. The exit poll orginally put the Swedish Democrats on 10.5% but the projection now seems to be around 15% after some real votes counted. Shy fascist votes. 15% is scary. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Sept 14, 2014 19:57:35 GMT
Something odd going on with the Swedish election. The exit poll orginally put the Swedish Democrats on 10.5% but the projection now seems to be around 15% after some real votes counted. Shy fascist votes. 15% is scary. Anyone care to contradict this theory- that the SD vote will prove to be highest in and around Malmo? |
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Post by iainbhx on Sept 14, 2014 20:01:05 GMT
Shy fascist votes. 15% is scary. Anyone care to contradict this theory- that the SD vote will prove to be highest in and around Malmo? Not in Malmö, but around it. The SD vote will be at the highest in suburban and exurban areas and at its lowest in Stockholm, Malmö and Göteborg. |
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Post by iainbhx on Sept 14, 2014 20:02:57 GMT
Turnout appears to be 83.1%.
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Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
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Post by Richard Allen on Sept 14, 2014 20:09:09 GMT
Anyone care to contradict this theory- that the SD vote will prove to be highest in and around Malmo? Not in Malmö, but around it. The SD vote will be at the highest in suburban and exurban areas and at its lowest in Stockholm, Malmö and Göteborg. Similar pattern of where the BNP vote was strongest over here and no doubt for similar reasons. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2014 20:10:44 GMT
Not in Malmö, but around it. The SD vote will be at the highest in suburban and exurban areas and at its lowest in Stockholm, Malmö and Göteborg. Similar pattern of where the BNP vote was strongest over here and no doubt for similar reasons. Are the SD out and out fascists and racists? I had always thought them a little more moderate than that? |
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