Newark By-election

[Deleted]

Jun 8, 2014 9:12:42 GMT baloo said:

Jun 8, 2014 8:58:00 GMT The Bishop said:

Money helps, though. Certainly in more "normal" circumstances when it means you can pay people to deliver your leaflets and stuff.....

That's true and I'm sure it must be nice when you have trade union call centres doing telephone canvassing for you and I'm sure UKIP weren't going on about spending being a problem when they had that massive poster campaign. Besides all that the specific point was about the Newark by election and the idea that we in any bought it is completely wrong. Just not supported by facts. Same with the independence referendum, the pro indy campaign can't talk with their millionaire backers and fund raising in the USA.

Had we lost Newark, we would have probably had accusations of taking the seat for granted (a la Solihull in 2005). This campaign, the first Con hold in a parliamentary by-election whilst in government since 1989, is something from which our party should be able to draw a lot of essential and valuable experience. Good grassroots organisation and hard work. Any support you can get from individuals, financial or otherwise, is a welcome bonus - this applies to all parties.

[Richard Allen]

Jun 8, 2014 12:02:32 GMT The Bishop said:

ISTR that Farage also predicted Rotherham 18 months ago would be quite a lot closer than it was. Maybe he's just predisposed to over-optimism?

Well yes, but it is easy to be over optimistic when you are making on call based on gut feeling and anecdotal evidence rather than hard data.

[AdminSTB]

There's also an element of having to get voters to believe you can win in order to get them to vote for you in the first place. I think this is where the Green Party generally go wrong since they seem to go into most by-elections with a "well we won't win, but..." attitude.

[Devil Wincarnate]

Jun 8, 2014 12:19:36 GMT swanarcadian said:

Jun 8, 2014 9:12:42 GMT baloo said:

That's true and I'm sure it must be nice when you have trade union call centres doing telephone canvassing for you and I'm sure UKIP weren't going on about spending being a problem when they had that massive poster campaign. Besides all that the specific point was about the Newark by election and the idea that we in any bought it is completely wrong. Just not supported by facts. Same with the independence referendum, the pro indy campaign can't talk with their millionaire backers and fund raising in the USA.

Had we lost Newark, we would have probably had accusations of taking the seat for granted (a la Solihull in 2005). This campaign, the first Con hold in a parliamentary by-election whilst in government since 1989, is something from which our party should be able to draw a lot of essential and valuable experience. Good grassroots organisation and hard work. Any support you can get from individuals, financial or otherwise, is a welcome bonus - this applies to all parties.

This.  I remember doing a morning at the Crewe & Nantwich by-election and as we waited to sign down, there were loads of activists from all over- Brummie accents, Geordies, Southerners...and of course loads from the North West and Staffordshire.  And by all accounts, the Lib Dems and Labour were just the same.  If throwing money at these things trumped boots on the ground (and targeted boots, as Richard so rightly points out), we'd have a Jury Team government after years of Referendum Party rule.  The irony is that money probably helps more under PR than FPTP!

[Deleted]

If I had the money and wanted to win a by election I would hire Paddy Power's advertising agency.

[East Anglian Lefty]

Jun 7, 2014 12:06:49 GMT Arthur Figgis said:

Jun 7, 2014 11:35:28 GMT carlton43 said:

Ah!  You give and you take away Devil. 'Too many hops' and now 'hipster' (I hated that term when it was but newly minted and 'hip'). However your points are all well founded along with those of Figgis. I was a CAMRA member for 40-years and have tried a lot of stuff. I prefer the very weak, pale very heavily hopped. I like Holts but it has been too long. I'm sorry to have to ask but where is Selnec? My all time favourites have been King and Barnes and Beards both of Lewes, Roses of Malton and Barnsley Bitter.

King and Barnes were of Horsham. They were bought out by Hall & Woodhouse about 15 years ago, and so Sussex Bitter is now brewed in Dorset (and, just like all other Hall & Woodlouse beers, utterly insipid).

As a consequence, Horsham is now filled with pubs tied to a brewery that only produces dire beers, so has gone from one of the best drinking away days in the Isthmian League season to one of the worst.

The 'King' of King & Barnes set up his own brewery in the town, WJ King's. K&B's head brewer has done likewise, Hepworth's. Both produce decent beers, just largely unobtainable in the pubs in the town.

My trick for watching cricket at the Horsham festival is to get a carry out from the off licence in town that serves draught beer. It's far better, and cheaper, than the beer served in pubs locally, as well as the beer tent at the ground, which usually only sells beer from Greene King and the breweries it has acquired and/or shut down.

I don't recognise this dichotomy. Greene King's stable is made up of breweries it has shut down, and breweries it hasn't yet got round to shutting down.

[neilm]

Jun 8, 2014 12:49:58 GMT @boogieeck said:

Jun 8, 2014 12:37:15 GMT AdminSTB said:

There's also an element of having to get voters to believe you can win in order to get them to vote for you in the first place. I think this is where the Green Party generally go wrong since they seem to go into most by-elections with a "well we won't win, but..." attitude.

Indeed. UKIP are competitive principally because the media say they are competitive. Same has been true of the SNP. The corollary is that the Lib Dems are no longer competitive because the media say they are not.

The Lib Dems were never competitive in lots of places. They thought they were and they reinforced that notion with self praise.

[Davıd Boothroyd]

Michael Crick's had a look at the election expenses returns:

"Tories claim they spent £96,191 in Newark by-election; Ukip £83,349; Labour £25,272 and Lib Dems £16,782"

[maxque]

Jul 14, 2014 10:25:40 GMT Davıd Boothroyd said:

Michael Crick's had a look at the election expenses returns:

"Tories claim they spent £96,191 in Newark by-election; Ukip £83,349; Labour £25,272 and Lib Dems £16,782"

That's £16.72 for each Lib Dem vote. That's awfully expensive.

[timokane]

Jul 14, 2014 10:44:53 GMT maxque said:

Jul 14, 2014 10:25:40 GMT Davıd Boothroyd said:

Michael Crick's had a look at the election expenses returns:

"Tories claim they spent £96,191 in Newark by-election; Ukip £83,349; Labour £25,272 and Lib Dems £16,782"

That's £16.72 for each Lib Dem vote. That's awfully expensive.

The Tories spent £5.52 per voter, labour £3.98 and the other biggest losers were UKIP at £8.32. The cost of fighting elections has to be factored into determining whether a seat is a winnable marginal. It seems a perversion these days that the harder the ground troops work to keep their seat safe, the less money they will be allocated from their respective central offices.

[Deleted]

Is that true, do you think in safe seats like this one that the troops 'work hard' ?

[Tony Otim]

Just out of interest, is there a figure for the Greens.

[greatkingrat]

£581.63. Our old friends the Patriotic Socialist Party spent £320 for their 18 votes

[Tony Otim]

So about 55p a vote then.

[LDCaerdydd]

[markgoodair]

Feb 12, 2016 16:33:27 GMT LDCaerdydd said:

Excellent

[Deleted]

You should be able to spend whatever you like on elections. Silly illiberal law.

Besides which, given there has been a general election since, presumably there is no risk of a by election.

[No Offence Alan]

Feb 12, 2016 19:08:24 GMT @jamesdowden said:

Jul 14, 2014 10:44:53 GMT maxque said:

That's £16.72 for each Lib Dem vote. That's awfully expensive.

Quite. If playing by the rules has gone out of the window, they should have tried the "I'll buy you a pint" approach; it would have been cheaper.

Our Newark campaign manager now works for Jeb Bush.

[myth11]

Feb 12, 2016 20:12:58 GMT No Offence Alan said:

Feb 12, 2016 19:08:24 GMT @jamesdowden said:

Quite. If playing by the rules has gone out of the window, they should have tried the "I'll buy you a pint" approach; it would have been cheaper.

Our Newark campaign manager now works for Jeb Bush.

To be fair Nottinghamshire is now a bit of a dead zone for the lib dems  having no Councillors  outside of the 3 Nottingham suburb councils and even there  you only have 1 in Gedling and 2 in rush.

[Sibboleth]

Feb 12, 2016 20:12:58 GMT No Offence Alan said:

Our Newark campaign manager now works for Jeb Bush.

Yes, I can see that.