neilm
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Post by neilm on May 30, 2014 8:30:48 GMT
Are we still seeing tactical voting on any kind of scale? I thought that had been pretty much put to bed after 2001.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2014 9:05:31 GMT
There's a very interesting question raised by that poll for Labour: "Which is more important? Electing a non Conservative MP in their 44th safest seat or electing a Labour MP?". If I was Labour I would answer "the former" and state that I vote UKIP as a tactical vote in order to beat the Conservative. The problem with that is that it would mean voting for a set of policies with which I fundamentally disagree. I couldn't do it.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on May 30, 2014 9:06:13 GMT
If I was a Labour voter in Newark, my temptation to vote for UKIP in order to give a bloody nose to the Tories would be massively tempered by the horrific prospect that it might mean being represented in Parliament by that obnoxious homophobic ranting idiot of a UKIP candidate.
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neilm
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Post by neilm on May 30, 2014 9:21:32 GMT
Unlike you to admit that you'd consider voting anything but Labour.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on May 30, 2014 9:26:25 GMT
Well I wouldn't; I was putting myself in the mind of a hypothetical Labour voter in Newark.
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on May 30, 2014 9:27:52 GMT
Exactly, a vaguely sane UKIP candidate could well have attracted "tactical" Labour votes. I doubt that Helmer can.
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on May 30, 2014 9:29:06 GMT
I am not surprised by the Labour responses above. The initial Labour position is too strong to give up upon, and I imagine UKIP is less attractive a prospect for tactical voting than nearly anything else. May I enquire of my Labour friends if they would consider a tactical vote for the Conservatives to block our UKIP advance? In the wake of a subsequent poll showing Conservative-UKIP neck-and-neck with Labour a greater distance into third place.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2014 9:56:10 GMT
No, I am afraid I wouldn't, as it would be seen as a vote for a series of policies enacted by the government that I believe to the detriment of those in most need in society. UKIP are not going to win the General Election but a big win for the Tories would boost their chances of winning next year. I would vote Labour. If the only way to stop a BNP candidate from winning would be to vote Tory, then that would be a different kettle of fish altogether and I would have my peg ready.
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on May 30, 2014 10:59:45 GMT
No, I am afraid I wouldn't, as it would be seen as a vote for a series of policies enacted by the government that I believe to the detriment of those in most need in society. UKIP are not going to win the General Election but a big win for the Tories would boost their chances of winning next year. I would vote Labour. If the only way to stop a BNP candidate from winning would be to vote Tory, then that would be a different kettle of fish altogether and I would have my peg ready. Fully understood. On tactics the core issues of personality and policy must take a back seat surely? Or one just votes the party ticket. Here in Ross and Cromarty I have voted Conservative because I liked the candidate; SNP and Labour on basis of 'man most likely' to defeat the LibDem; and latterly UKIP on party ticket basis. Do you consider spiking Conservatives and blunting their chances of winning next year is worth a punt on UKIP just to achieve that purpose? Surely being too concerned about the individual personality and policy of the 'vehicle' candidate for your tactic is really a matter of rather prissy vanity? I did not need a peg to vote SNP as I was just looking at the bigger picture....the possible beheading of the Leader of the LibDems. In fact he was easily re-elected and then resigned when a spad was nearly crushed to death on opening a cupboard and disappearing under empty bottles!!!
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neilm
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Post by neilm on May 30, 2014 11:03:25 GMT
What? Tell us more about this story.
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on May 30, 2014 11:05:34 GMT
What? Tell us more about this story. Metaphor dear boy....merely metaphor.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2014 11:08:24 GMT
No, I am afraid I wouldn't, as it would be seen as a vote for a series of policies enacted by the government that I believe to the detriment of those in most need in society. UKIP are not going to win the General Election but a big win for the Tories would boost their chances of winning next year. I would vote Labour. If the only way to stop a BNP candidate from winning would be to vote Tory, then that would be a different kettle of fish altogether and I would have my peg ready. Fully understood. On tactics the core issues of personality and policy must take a back seat surely? Or one just votes the party ticket. Here in Ross and Cromarty I have voted Conservative because I liked the candidate; SNP and Labour on basis of 'man most likely' to defeat the LibDem; and latterly UKIP on party ticket basis. Do you consider spiking Conservatives and blunting their chances of winning next year is worth a punt on UKIP just to achieve that purpose? Surely being too concerned about the individual personality and policy of the 'vehicle' candidate for your tactic is really a matter of rather prissy vanity? I did not need a peg to vote SNP as I was just looking at the bigger picture....the possible beheading of the Leader of the LibDems. In fact he was easily re-elected and then resigned when a spad was nearly crushed to death on opening a cupboard and disappearing under empty bottles!!! It is not prissy vanity when the candidate is Roger Helmer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2014 11:11:05 GMT
Also, I would guess I am somewhat more tribal than you Carlton.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2014 11:53:41 GMT
Carlton, what do you think those Labour voters who tactically voted for the LD's now think ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2014 12:18:39 GMT
Carlton, what do you think those Labour voters who tactically voted for the LD's now think ? In Newark? Check where the centre of the Lib Dem vote was (Clue look for the cathedral town) and then guess whether voters in that area would be more blue or red inclined.
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on May 30, 2014 12:34:11 GMT
Also, I would guess I am somewhat more tribal than you Carlton. Yes, I think that you probably are....and I think there is at least an element of prissiness and vanity. It is not about you: And it is not about Helmer. It is not really about who represents Newark. It is all about grand strategy...or at least, pseudo-grand tactics. I think socialists are a bit more prissy and tribal than those on the right. We have a more military turn of mind and want to win the war more than individual skirmishes, and are not at all concerned about campaign medals!
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Tony Otim
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Post by Tony Otim on May 30, 2014 12:39:43 GMT
I gave up tactical voting after 2010.
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on May 30, 2014 12:42:17 GMT
I cannot see any strategic or tactical reason for not wishing to win. Can't you? The electorate expects something different from an MP than an MEP you know. Caution.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2014 12:48:43 GMT
Carlton, what do you think those Labour voters who tactically voted for the LD's now think ? In Newark? Check where the centre of the Lib Dem vote was (Clue look for the cathedral town) and then guess whether voters in that area would be more blue or red inclined. just generally, do Labour voters now think voting LD to keep the Tories out was a good idea ?
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on May 30, 2014 12:48:54 GMT
Carlton, what do you think those Labour voters who tactically voted for the LD's now think ? Well, Ian, I can only speak for myself if I had been in that position. If I had voted LibDem to keep in a LibDem under threat from the Conservatives, or had helped with my vote to oust a Conservative with a LibDem victory......I would have been pleased at the macro result because I would have been part of a strategy that denied Cameron an overall victory. RESULT. You will now go on to agonize over the said LibDem having been part of that gross betrayal of 'everything' called the coalition? Yes, BUT!!! But Cameron was denied an outright victory. The LibDems may be seen to have blunted the more rightest elements of the Conservative programme and thus to have protected your members from the ravages of real cuts that a Carlton would have introduced. Thirdly, you may subsequently bask in seeing the said LibDems tend to self-destruction after having being lured by the smell of power to said coalition. What an excellent tactical vote that turned out to be: 1) No majority Conservative administration; 2) A watered down Conservative programme with far less austerity; and 3) amazing consequential damage to a party competing for your vote sector. RESULT OR WOT!!! Now, I bet a tribal Ian would never have done that. He would have cast his tribal vote for the party and sustained their poor third place a bit,,,,, and achieved absolutely nothing, other than feeling good inside and basking in having been a good party member..........but IMO quite a lot of a prat?
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