|
|
Post by Pete Whitehead on Feb 28, 2024 12:10:50 GMT
Absolutely, and it's their prerogative to use their votes in that way if they wish. Most of what we hear about so-called 'wasted' votes is (to use the site's word of the day) hogwash. It's patronizing, and probably wrong, to suggest that people voting for a hopeless candidate did so under the misapprehension that he or she stood a decent chance of winning. It's much likelier that these voters were fully aware of the realities of the election, but were unengaged by the main candidates and preferred to use their votes to make a statement. Personally, I wouldn't use my vote in this way; but if others choose to do so, it's their choice and if they don't think such a vote was wasted, neither should anyone else.
Well quite, personally I've never voted for a candidate for Parliament who I thought had the slightest chance of being elected.  May do this year though. Are you planning to vote Lib Dem? |
|
|
|
Post by carlton43 on Feb 28, 2024 12:44:32 GMT
Well quite, personally I've never voted for a candidate for Parliament who I thought had the slightest chance of being elected. May do this year though. I have twice voted for the winning candidate in general elections, in 1992 in Newham NE & at the last election in Richmond Park. I am highly unlikely to be doing so at the forthcoming general election. In my first 7-GEs (1964-1983 inc) I voted for the winning party/candidate. And always for the same party (CON). Then in 8-GEs (1987-2019) I voted for a losing candidate in one of 4-different parties/candidates. There is a stand-out vote (1997) when I voted for the winning party LAB but in a constituency where I had previously voted CON. So my tally is 8-8 being virtually first half and second half of my life. |
|
nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,456
|
Post by nodealbrexiteer on Feb 28, 2024 13:26:09 GMT
I have twice voted for the winning candidate in general elections, in 1992 in Newham NE & at the last election in Richmond Park. I am highly unlikely to be doing so at the forthcoming general election. In my first 7-GEs (1964-1983 inc) I voted for the winning party/candidate. And always for the same party (CON). Then in 8-GEs (1987-2019) I voted for a losing candidate in one of 4-different parties/candidates. There is a stand-out vote (1997) when I voted for the winning party LAB but in a constituency where I had previously voted CON. So my tally is 8-8 being virtually first half and second half of my life. 4-3 for me in favour of wining candidates-the 4 being 1997,2001,2005,2019 |
|
peterl
Green
Congratulations President Trump
Posts: 8,473 
|
Post by peterl on Feb 28, 2024 16:35:50 GMT
Well quite, personally I've never voted for a candidate for Parliament who I thought had the slightest chance of being elected. May do this year though. Are you planning to vote Lib Dem? Thinking about it. Sufficiently sick of this government to actually consider a tactical vote, and the candidate being fairly decent would make that easier. |
|
|
|
Post by manchesterman on Feb 28, 2024 18:26:25 GMT
Maybe the term "wasted vote" is a bit of a misnomer.
I prefer to think of it as the existence of 2 tiers of voters. All those in marginal or even vaguely-marginal constituencies are 1st Tier voters. They will be doorstepped by candidates, asked what their grievances are, offered "reasons" to vote for said candidate, and generally treated as if you're important to them [even if they're lying through their teeth in some cases]
Then there are 2nd Tier voters. Those in the super-safe seats. No one will ever visit the homes of these voters (other than for perfunctory publicity shots for local paper etc); their opinions will not be canvassed and whether you were voting for the massively-winning candidate or not, no one cares as it simply dosent matter!
I've spent most of my adult life as a 2nd Tier voter, but am imminently moving to a Tier 1 competitive seat [and I'm very excited about it!]
The point is that under some form of proportional system everyone becomes a Tier 1 voter...it's literally "levelling up" in action! So maybe that's a better description of the benefits of PR than "wasted votes".
|
|
|
|
Post by No Offence Alan on Feb 28, 2024 18:38:13 GMT
Maybe the term "wasted vote" is a bit of a misnomer. I prefer to think of it as the existence of 2 tiers of voters. All those in marginal or even vaguely-marginal constituencies are 1st Tier voters. They will be doorstepped by candidates, asked what their grievances are, offered "reasons" to vote for said candidate, and generally treated as if you're important to them [even if they're lying through their teeth in some cases] Then there are 2nd Tier voters. Those in the super-safe seats. No one will ever visit the homes of these voters (other than for perfunctory publicity shots for local paper etc); their opinions will not be canvassed and whether you were voting for the massively-winning candidate or not, no one cares as it simply dosent matter! I've spent most of my adult life as a 2nd Tier voter, but am imminently moving to a Tier 1 competitive seat [and I'm very excited about it!] The point is that under some form of proportional system everyone becomes a Tier 1 voter...it's literally "levelling up" in action! So maybe that's a better description of the benefits of PR than "wasted votes". My home seat has gone from safe Lab in 2010 to safe SNP in 2015 to technically a 3-way marginal in 2017 (SNP 37.4%, Lab 31.8%, Con 27.5%) to safe SNP again in 2019. I can't remember the last time I was canvassed. I doubt I am on a "do not canvass" list, despite being the "only Lib Dem in the village*". * actually town of 9,000 people. |
|
nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,456
|
Post by nodealbrexiteer on Feb 28, 2024 22:46:07 GMT
Maybe the term "wasted vote" is a bit of a misnomer. I prefer to think of it as the existence of 2 tiers of voters. All those in marginal or even vaguely-marginal constituencies are 1st Tier voters. They will be doorstepped by candidates, asked what their grievances are, offered "reasons" to vote for said candidate, and generally treated as if you're important to them [even if they're lying through their teeth in some cases] Then there are 2nd Tier voters. Those in the super-safe seats. No one will ever visit the homes of these voters (other than for perfunctory publicity shots for local paper etc); their opinions will not be canvassed and whether you were voting for the massively-winning candidate or not, no one cares as it simply dosent matter! I've spent most of my adult life as a 2nd Tier voter, but am imminently moving to a Tier 1 competitive seat [and I'm very excited about it!] The point is that under some form of proportional system everyone becomes a Tier 1 voter...it's literally "levelling up" in action! So maybe that's a better description of the benefits of PR than "wasted votes". You're still not selling it to me  . I'm not sure how much of Joe Public worry about 'wasted' votes |
|
Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
Posts: 2,922
|
Post by Harry Hayfield on Feb 29, 2024 6:22:45 GMT
Westminster Voting Intention [Greater London]: LAB: 52% (-3) CON: 17% (-3) LDM: 10% (+1) GRN: 10% (+1) RFM: 10% (+6) Via @yougov, 12-19 Feb. Changes w/ 12-17 Oct. Since the last GE, that would be Lab +4 Con -15 LD -5 Green +7 Reform +9 from BP and on uniform swing would lead to seats won being LAB: 61 (+9) CON: 9 (-9) LDM: 5 (=) If this poll is anything like reasonable then for the Assembly I can easily see the Lib Dems gain South West, Labour gain both Croydon and Havering, but the Conservatives hold Bexley and on the regional list Reform win 4 seats, Conservatives 3, Greens 3 and Lib Dems 1 meaning that Labour would be one seat short of an overall majority (Lab +1, Con -5, Reform +4, Green and Lib Dem unchanged) |
|
|
|
Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Feb 29, 2024 6:29:28 GMT
What is a wasted vote?
I've voted for the winning candidate at a general election once, but it was more of a wasted vote in my opinion than my votes for those who ended up losing at other general elections. Why? Because it helped elect Jarred O'Mara.
|
|
|
|
Post by batman on Feb 29, 2024 6:49:27 GMT
What is a wasted vote? I've voted for the winning candidate at a general election once, but it was more of a wasted vote in my opinion than my votes for those who ended up losing at other general elections. Why? Because it helped elect Jarred O'Mara. my sympathy. What an awful MP he was. I remain amazed that the LDs were unable to take that seat after all that |
|
stb12
Top Poster
Posts: 8,399
|
Post by stb12 on Feb 29, 2024 8:07:06 GMT
What is a wasted vote? I've voted for the winning candidate at a general election once, but it was more of a wasted vote in my opinion than my votes for those who ended up losing at other general elections. Why? Because it helped elect Jarred O'Mara. my sympathy. What an awful MP he was. I remain amazed that the LDs were unable to take that seat after all that One of those where it maybe seemed so certain they got complacent with it? |
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 39,015
Member is Online
|
Post by The Bishop on Feb 29, 2024 12:46:30 GMT
Whilst targeting all sorts of unlikely seats, putting out leaflets proclaiming that Jo Swinson was our next PM.
The last LibDem general election campaign is going to feature in future textbooks as an exemplar of how *not* to do things.
|
|
nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,456
|
Post by nodealbrexiteer on Feb 29, 2024 12:52:07 GMT
Whilst targeting all sorts of unlikely seats, putting out leaflets proclaiming that Jo Swinson was our next PM. The last LibDem general election campaign is going to feature in future textbooks as an exemplar of how *not* to do things. Just the last one? |
|
|
|
Post by johnloony on Feb 29, 2024 14:14:47 GMT
What is a wasted vote? I've voted for the winning candidate at a general election once, but it was more of a wasted vote in my opinion than my votes for those who ended up losing at other general elections. Why? Because it helped elect Jarred O'Mara. my sympathy. What an awful MP he was. I remain amazed that the LDs were unable to take that seat after all that Their attempt to regain the seat was of course hindered by Jarred O'Mara not being the Labour candidate any more. |
|
|
|
Post by batman on Feb 29, 2024 15:17:30 GMT
Well yes obviously that's the case. O'Mara would have had very little if any chance if he had been the Labour candidate. I had simply believed that his record had been so woeful, in a marginal seat with no Labour tradition, that he had stymied Labour's chances of holding the seat even with a much better new candidate.
|
|
Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
Posts: 9,756
Member is Online
|
Post by Chris from Brum on Feb 29, 2024 22:22:19 GMT
Whilst targeting all sorts of unlikely seats, putting out leaflets proclaiming that Jo Swinson was our next PM. The last LibDem general election campaign is going to feature in future textbooks as an exemplar of how *not* to do things. Just the last one? It was clearly the worst in a very long time. |
|
|
|
Post by michaelarden on Mar 1, 2024 0:21:39 GMT
Just the last one? It was clearly the worst in a very long time. 2015 says Hi! |
|
|
|
Post by nobodyimportant on Mar 1, 2024 9:08:15 GMT
It was clearly the worst in a very long time. 2015 says Hi! 2015 was the worst result in a long time. That's not the same thing as the worst campaign. We were doomed in 2015 long before the campaign even started. |
|
|
|
Post by Yaffles on Mar 1, 2024 9:18:05 GMT
Well yes obviously that's the case. O'Mara would have had very little if any chance if he had been the Labour candidate. I had simply believed that his record had been so woeful, in a marginal seat with no Labour tradition, that he had stymied Labour's chances of holding the seat even with a much better new candidate. Yes, I was very surprised by the Hallam result last time round. Before election day I had this one down as a nailed on Lib Dem gain. Seems to me that they were not as effective at squeezing the Tory vote as perhaps they have been elsewhere. My guess would be that the pull of 'getting Brexit done' was stronger for some voters than the pull of beating Labour (Corbyn). |
|
|
|
Post by andrewp on Apr 11, 2024 12:12:01 GMT
From Redfield Wilton
London Mayoral Election VI (6-8 April):
Sadiq Khan (Lab) 43%
Susan Hall (Cons) 30%
Zoë Garbett (Green) 10%
Rob Blackie (Lib Dem) 8%
Howard Cox (Reform) 7%
Other 2%
|
|
May do this year though.
. I'm not sure how much of Joe Public worry about 'wasted' votes
