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Post by batman on Oct 21, 2023 21:00:22 GMT
3 in this parliament alone. And my MP 2 parliaments ago
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Post by carlton43 on Oct 21, 2023 23:40:06 GMT
Technically you might be correct, but that's not how it came over to those who heard it. It is true that he didn't specifically say "I've lost thanks to you" or any such formulation, but the way he shouted & ranted at Goldsmith that is what people surmised he meant, rightly or wrongly. But whatever one thought of Mellor he paled to nothing against the sheer nastiness and toxicity of Goldsmith who was a vindictive and abhorrent piece of work. If I had been Mellor I would have been considerably ruder and more offensive.
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weld
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Post by weld on Oct 22, 2023 4:07:34 GMT
Technically you might be correct, but that's not how it came over to those who heard it. It is true that he didn't specifically say "I've lost thanks to you" or any such formulation, but the way he shouted & ranted at Goldsmith that is what people surmised he meant, rightly or wrongly. But whatever one thought of Mellor he paled to nothing against the sheer nastiness and toxicity of Goldsmith who was a vindictive and abhorrent piece of work. If I had been Mellor I would have been considerably ruder and more offensive. Same. And Mellor was 100% correct, the Referendum Party was "dead in the water".
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Post by batman on Oct 22, 2023 8:35:57 GMT
Technically you might be correct, but that's not how it came over to those who heard it. It is true that he didn't specifically say "I've lost thanks to you" or any such formulation, but the way he shouted & ranted at Goldsmith that is what people surmised he meant, rightly or wrongly. But whatever one thought of Mellor he paled to nothing against the sheer nastiness and toxicity of Goldsmith who was a vindictive and abhorrent piece of work. If I had been Mellor I would have been considerably ruder and more offensive. I've liked your comment, as I agree that Goldsmith was a very unpleasant man, but I must confess to being biased against David Mellor, partly because I know and like his ex-wife, who for a Tory & a Chelsea supporter is a really nice person. We sing in a choir together & she is every bit as much a sporting nut as David is.
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Post by batman on Oct 22, 2023 8:37:20 GMT
David Mellor is also a good friend of a close friend..........but I have never met him. If I ever do so it would be in musical circles.
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johnloony
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Post by johnloony on Oct 29, 2023 21:30:26 GMT
Someone on Twitter points out that 99 years ago today, Hugh Vere Huntly Duff Munro-Lucas-Tooth was elected as MP for Isle of Ely, as the first MP born in the 20th century (13th January 1903). It makes me wonder who and when were the other (older) first few MPs born in the 20th century, but born in 1901 or 1902.
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Post by greatkingrat on Oct 30, 2023 20:42:31 GMT
Someone on Twitter points out that 99 years ago today, Hugh Vere Huntly Duff Munro-Lucas-Tooth was elected as MP for Isle of Ely, as the first MP born in the 20th century (13th January 1903). It makes me wonder who and when were the other (older) first few MPs born in the 20th century, but born in 1901 or 1902. Arthur Duckworth (Conservative MP for Shrewsbury, 1929-1945) was born on 3rd January 1901, which I suspect won't be beaten. I wonder if we see the first 21st century MP at the next election?
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Oct 30, 2023 21:20:48 GMT
I wonder if we see the first 21st century MP at the next election? Almost certainly. Kier Mather was born in 1998 so we’re getting close.
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Post by greatkingrat on Oct 30, 2023 21:31:23 GMT
I wonder if we see the first 21st century MP at the next election? Almost certainly. Kier Mather was born in 1998 so we’re getting close. Does anyone know if any particularly young candidates have been selected in winnable seats?
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DrW
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Post by DrW on Nov 1, 2023 11:44:53 GMT
You could produce an alternative set of statistics if you exclude a few outliers, and only include "normal" results, but the problem still remains that it's distorted. Similarly with general elections: in 1951 (for example) the Conservative Party won more seats than Labour, but with fewer votes. It was thus a "wrong winner" election (like February 1974). But if the Conservative Party had had candidates in the four constituencies which it won unopposed, and/or if it had a few more candidates in the places where they had an electoral pact with the Liberal Party, then the Conservative Party might have won a plurality of the votes as well. Or if the Conservative Party had held Tatton in 1997 (i.e. if Labour and Lib Dems had stood normally and split the vote), then the Conservative Party would have made a net gain of 0 seats in 2001 instead of +1. Or if the main GB parties routinely stood in all constituencies in Northern Ireland, the results would be different. In other words, any "tidying up" process of excluding outliers and adjusting actual results moves away from what is "real". This has been claimed before, but Labour's PV margin was around 230k votes - not trivial. And if you presume Labour contest the unopposed seats (which were in NI, but Labour candidates stood there back then) it becomes even more of a stretch. I don’t disagree with your central point that Labour probably would have had the most votes across the country anyway but (1) presumably Ulster Unionist votes are counted as contributing to the Conservative total and (2) as a result, had the four uncontested NI constituencies been contested, the Conservative vote total would have increased by significantly more than the Labour total? NI constituencies were very large at the time as well, so the Conservatives may have been “deprived” of more than 100,000 votes.
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Nov 1, 2023 11:48:59 GMT
Yes, fair enough - though my thinking was that some Labour votes in those seats would cut back on that Tory narrowing of the national lead just a bit. And re the other point, I think Ulster Unionist votes "counted" as Tory in these calculations until the 1970 GE (but not after)
Though the real issue is maybe that even had the Tories contested every seat in 1951 (the ones where they ended up giving the Liberals a free run as well) they may or may not have managed to catch Labour in the overall popular vote - but it would *still* have been a pretty lopsided result in FPTP terms.
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DrW
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Post by DrW on Nov 1, 2023 16:08:11 GMT
Yes, fair enough - though my thinking was that some Labour votes in those seats would cut back on that Tory narrowing of the national lead just a bit. And re the other point, I think Ulster Unionist votes "counted" as Tory in these calculations until the 1970 GE (but not after) Though the real issue is maybe that even had the Tories contested every seat in 1951 (the ones where they ended up giving the Liberals a free run as well) they may or may not have managed to catch Labour in the overall popular vote - but it would *still* have been a pretty lopsided result in FPTP terms. My thinking was that the Tories, in terms of the national vote, were the main losers from those uncontested seats - both them and Labour got zero votes from those constituencies but had they been contested, the Tories/Unionists would have obtained far more votes than Labour. However, if there were only 8 seats where the Tories didn’t stand across the UK, I am not sure that the Tories standing in all of them would have given them the 250k to 300k needed to overhaul Labour.
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weld
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Post by weld on Nov 10, 2023 20:43:25 GMT
The Hackney mayoral result was among the Greens’ best.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Nov 10, 2023 22:34:40 GMT
The Hackney mayoral result was among the Greens’ best. Does anyone know if the Sue Limb who is on that list as candidate for MEP in the Cotswolds in 1989 is the same Sue Limb who wrote various Radio 4 Comedies (and who, according to Wikipedia, coined the word "bonkbuster")? Wiki also claims she lives on an organic farm near Wotton-under-Edge, so both constituency and party allegiance seem plausible
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Nov 10, 2023 22:42:09 GMT
Does anyone know if the Sue Limb who is on that list as candidate for MEP in the Cotswolds in 1989 is the same Sue Limb who wrote various Radio 4 Comedies (and who, according to Wikipedia, coined the word "bonkbuster")? Wiki also claims she lives on an organic farm near Wotton-under-Edge, so both constituency and party allegiance seem plausible Yes, it was. As she put it in an article in The Guardian on 23 June 1989, "I had been festering idly on the edge of the Green Party for ages, when along came the Euro Elections. "Be a sport", urged my Green chums. "This is your sort of thing. You know. The media and stuff." They looked at me accusingly. What was the point of having a Writer and Broadcaster around if she wouldn't write and broadcast in the hour of Green need? They convinced me."
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Post by finsobruce on Nov 10, 2023 22:49:27 GMT
The Hackney mayoral result was among the Greens’ best. Does anyone know if the Sue Limb who is on that list as candidate for MEP in the Cotswolds in 1989 is the same Sue Limb who wrote various Radio 4 Comedies (and who, according to Wikipedia, coined the word "bonkbuster")? Wiki also claims she lives on an organic farm near Wotton-under-Edge, so both constituency and party allegiance seem plausible
Six part comedy set on a Gloucestershire farm.
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Post by bluelabour on Nov 11, 2023 0:14:31 GMT
The Hackney mayoral result was among the Greens’ best. That Green result in 1989 has always fascinated me. The surge out of nowhere, before completely disappearing off the scene for a bit. Do any forum contributors remember the context of the result or have any interesting stories about the election?
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Nov 11, 2023 0:21:18 GMT
That Green result in 1989 has always fascinated me. The surge out of nowhere, before completely disappearing off the scene for a bit. Do any forum contributors remember the context of the result or have any interesting stories about the election? There's always been a large 'none of the above' vote which won't support either Conservative or Labour. Usually it goes to the Liberals / Liberal Democrats but in 1989 they had so botched their merger that they were no longer electorally credible. Meanwhile green issues were suddenly prominent (Mrs Thatcher was addressing them) and the Green Party seemed a credible alternative. Circumstances delivered them the vote; they didn't have to do much to get it, and lacked the campaigning resources to retain it.
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Post by manchesterman on Nov 11, 2023 0:55:46 GMT
I also seem to recall that Greenpeace were very active and their publicity campaign was more 'professional' than it had been in the past. I also think around the late 80s that the serious perils of climate change were getting more coverage and the increased publicity - aided by media-friendly spokespeople like Jonathan Porritt - got the message across better than in previous years, when the Greens were largely regarded as (apologies to Green team members) "tree-hugging hippies who were all a bit weird"
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johnloony
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Post by johnloony on Nov 11, 2023 1:21:32 GMT
That Green result in 1989 has always fascinated me. The surge out of nowhere, before completely disappearing off the scene for a bit. Do any forum contributors remember the context of the result or have any interesting stories about the election? It was a straight swing direct from Liberal Democrat to Green (not just overall, but in local details: its best results were in southern rural constituencies, where the Lib Dems would normally do well). The opinion polls in the run-up to the election suggested that the Green Party would get perhaps 5% of the vote. When the exit poll said that they got 14%, the Green Party issued a statement saying that they were “cautiously ecstatic“. The graphics which the BBC used in its results programmes were assuming no significant votes outside the three main parties, and the Green Party share of the vote was, in effect, shown as the grey column labelled “others“. The other memorable feature of that particular election, which probably helped, was that the Green Party had a very good Party Election Broadcast, in which they dumped gunge, muck and pollution onto young children. At that time, I was doing a training scheme for unemployed people (learning to use Apple computers for desktop publishing). The group comprised about 15 people*, and about 10 of them said that they were going to vote Green. I remember predicting beforehand that the Green party would hold its deposit and get more than 5% of the votes in a majority of the constituencies; it actually held its deposit in every single constituency (its worst result was 5.1% in Glasgow). Even then, I thought I was sticking my neck out in being over optimistic. * one of the other trainees in the group was Mike Keogh, who subsequently became a Green councillor in Lewisham and was Green candidate for Mayor of Lewisham. (His boyfriend was the manager / tutor of the group).
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