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Post by batman on Aug 2, 2023 8:04:25 GMT
It has throughout my lifetime been a distinct misnomer of an area.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Aug 2, 2023 10:34:12 GMT
Before the formation of Glasgow Rutherglen (1983--2005), Toryglen was part of the Glasgow Queen's Park constituency (from 1974) and Glasgow Cathcart (from 1950) - so it did at least have a Tory MP within mine and Barnaby's lifetime. Before 1950 though it was part of the Rutherglen seat which I'm pretty sure did not include any parts of Glasgow city, so presumably it was part of teh original Rutherglen burgh but absobed by Glasgow as part of an earlier expnasion of the city boundaries between the wars (thanks as ever to www.parlconst.org/constituency-maps/scotland/)
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,356
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Post by YL on Aug 2, 2023 19:59:46 GMT
Before the formation of Glasgow Rutherglen (1983--2005), Toryglen was part of the Glasgow Queen's Park constituency (from 1974) and Glasgow Cathcart (from 1950) - so it did at least have a Tory MP within mine and Barnaby's lifetime. Before 1950 though it was part of the Rutherglen seat which I'm pretty sure did not include any parts of Glasgow city, so presumably it was part of teh original Rutherglen burgh but absobed by Glasgow as part of an earlier expnasion of the city boundaries between the wars (thanks as ever to www.parlconst.org/constituency-maps/scotland/)I don't think it was actually part of the burgh of Rutherglen, but part of "the extra-burghal portion of the parish of Rutherglen", as included in the Rutherglen constituency in 1918. If you look on the 1885 to 1918 map on parlconst's site, you will see that Rutherglen itself was part of the Kilmarnock District of Burghs while Toryglen was in Mid Lanarkshire, with part of the constituency boundary following the same line that the city boundary does today between Toryglen and Rutherglen. (I suppose Rutherglen itself was technically also in Mid Lanarkshire, in the way that areas in borough/burgh constituencies were also in county divisions at that time.) I looked at some maps on the NLS site from the first half of the 20th century and couldn't see any sign of Toryglen having been in the burgh of Rutherglen. It was a golf course, so may have lived up to its name more than it does now. BTW why was Rutherglen removed from Glasgow in the 1990s?
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Aug 2, 2023 20:42:00 GMT
"the extra-burghal portion of the parish of Rutherglen" is one of the best phrases I have ever read
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weld
Non-Aligned
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Post by weld on Aug 3, 2023 5:08:59 GMT
"the extra-burghal portion of the parish of Rutherglen" is one of the best phrases I have ever read Scotland doesn’t mess about. Glasgow Hillhead 1918–1950: "That portion of the city which is bounded by a line commencing at a point in the municipal boundary at its intersection with the centre line of the River Kelvin, thence southeastward, southward and southwestward along the centre line of the River Kelvin to the centre line of the North British Railway (Stobcross Branch), thence north-westward along the centre of the said North British Railway to its intersection with the municipal boundary, thence northeastward along the municipal boundary to the point of commencement".
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weld
Non-Aligned
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Post by weld on Oct 18, 2023 4:50:13 GMT
Add the Referendum vote to the Tory vote in '97, and Tories hold these:
Braintree Castle Point Colchester Eastleigh Harrow West Harwich Kettering Kingston & Surbiton Lancaster & Wyre Lewes North East Milton Keynes North West Norfolk Northampton South Romford Rugby & Kenilworth Somerton & Frome Taunton Torbay Weston-super-Mare Winchester
Close results:- Hastings & Rye (49 vote Labour lead); Southgate (Portillo loses by 91 votes); Bristol West (Waldergrave loses by 189 votes).
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,075
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Oct 18, 2023 7:23:48 GMT
Add the Referendum vote to the Tory vote in '97, and Tories hold these: Braintree Castle Point Colchester Eastleigh Harrow West Harwich Kettering Kingston & Surbiton Lancaster & Wyre Lewes North East Milton Keynes North West Norfolk Northampton South Romford Rugby & Kenilworth Somerton & Frome Taunton Torbay Weston-super-Mare Winchester Close results:- Hastings & Rye (49 vote Labour lead); Southgate (Portillo loses by 91 votes); Bristol West (Waldergrave loses by 189 votes). see point 3: www.ipsos.com/en-uk/10-myths-about-1997-election
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Post by batman on Oct 18, 2023 7:54:45 GMT
Add the Referendum vote to the Tory vote in '97, and Tories hold these: Braintree Castle Point Colchester Eastleigh Harrow West Harwich Kettering Kingston & Surbiton Lancaster & Wyre Lewes North East Milton Keynes North West Norfolk Northampton South Romford Rugby & Kenilworth Somerton & Frome Taunton Torbay Weston-super-Mare Winchester Close results:- Hastings & Rye (49 vote Labour lead); Southgate (Portillo loses by 91 votes); Bristol West (Waldergrave loses by 189 votes). That's true. Absent however is Putney. David Mellor's defeated candidate speech was one of the stupidest such speeches I have ever heard, for obvious arithmetical reasons. He ranted & raved at Jimmy Goldsmith (who was already visibly very ill), but he aimed at completely the wrong target, as Goldsmith polled only about 1500 votes & the Labour majority was something in the region of 3000. Mellor's defeat was nothing to do with Goldsmith's candidacy at all.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Oct 18, 2023 9:13:48 GMT
Saw Mellor a little while ago on one of the news channels with his stupid long hair. He was reminiscing about when he got into a row with an IDF officer in Gaza. One of those I was happy to see lose their seat in 97.
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,075
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Oct 18, 2023 9:18:16 GMT
Saw Mellor a little while ago on one of the news channels with his stupid long hair. He was reminiscing about when he got into a row with an IDF officer in Gaza. One of those I was happy to see lose their seat in 97. Would you add Edwina Currie to that list?
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Oct 18, 2023 9:39:00 GMT
Saw Mellor a little while ago on one of the news channels with his stupid long hair. He was reminiscing about when he got into a row with an IDF officer in Gaza. One of those I was happy to see lose their seat in 97. Would you add Edwina Currie to that list? She was near the top of that list (probably only lower down than Hugh Dykes)
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Post by johnloony on Oct 18, 2023 11:21:18 GMT
Add the Referendum vote to the Tory vote in '97, and Tories hold these: Close results:- Hastings & Rye (49 vote Labour lead); Southgate (Portillo loses by 91 votes); Bristol West (Waldergrave loses by 189 votes). That's true. Absent however is Putney. David Mellor's defeated candidate speech was one of the stupidest such speeches I have ever heard, for obvious arithmetical reasons. He ranted & raved at Jimmy Goldsmith (who was already visibly very ill), but he aimed at completely the wrong target, as Goldsmith polled only about 1500 votes & the Labour majority was something in the region of 3000. Mellor's defeat was nothing to do with Goldsmith's candidacy at all. Mellor’s speech after the declaration was not blaming the Referendum Party for his defeat. It was rejoicing in the fact that the Referendum Party had done so badly. I think he was more delighted at that than being upset by his own defeat (he would have been expecting to lose anyway).
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Post by batman on Oct 18, 2023 11:30:05 GMT
Technically you might be correct, but that's not how it came over to those who heard it. It is true that he didn't specifically say "I've lost thanks to you" or any such formulation, but the way he shouted & ranted at Goldsmith that is what people surmised he meant, rightly or wrongly.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Oct 18, 2023 11:36:22 GMT
The live coverage moved away from Putney after the figures were given, and Mellor's speech was replayed from a recording - missing out his initial remarks to concentrate on the part where he was goading Goldsmith. 'Were you still up for Portillo?' wrote about it.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,753
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Post by The Bishop on Oct 18, 2023 11:39:49 GMT
In reality the Referendum Party might have cost the Tories half a dozen seats, maybe only Castle Point and Harwich.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Oct 18, 2023 11:48:03 GMT
In reality the Referendum Party might have cost the Tories half a dozen seats, maybe only Castle Point and Harwich. Probably true. As someone who voted for the Referendum Party at that election, I was quite keen to kick the Major government out but the local candidate played a part too*. Absent a Referendum party candidate in my seat at that election I might well have voted for the Natural Law party, but in other constituencies I may have grudgingly stuck with the Conservatives (I was party member at the time of course) *The Conervative candidate was on the extreme left of the party at that time. I've seen a bit of him on Twitter in recent years and he appears to have become more moderate.
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Post by stb12 on Oct 18, 2023 22:56:18 GMT
Add the Referendum vote to the Tory vote in '97, and Tories hold these: Braintree Castle Point Colchester Eastleigh Harrow West Harwich Kettering Kingston & Surbiton Lancaster & Wyre Lewes North East Milton Keynes North West Norfolk Northampton South Romford Rugby & Kenilworth Somerton & Frome Taunton Torbay Weston-super-Mare Winchester Close results:- Hastings & Rye (49 vote Labour lead); Southgate (Portillo loses by 91 votes); Bristol West (Waldergrave loses by 189 votes). That's true. Absent however is Putney. David Mellor's defeated candidate speech was one of the stupidest such speeches I have ever heard, for obvious arithmetical reasons. He ranted & raved at Jimmy Goldsmith (who was already visibly very ill), but he aimed at completely the wrong target, as Goldsmith polled only about 1500 votes & the Labour majority was something in the region of 3000. Mellor's defeat was nothing to do with Goldsmith's candidacy at all. Michael Portillo said that he saw that exchange before his own result was announced and it made him more determined to be dignified in defeat
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Post by manchesterman on Oct 18, 2023 23:27:06 GMT
The live coverage moved away from Putney after the figures were given, and Mellor's speech was replayed from a recording - missing out his initial remarks to concentrate on the part where he was goading Goldsmith. 'Were you still up for Portillo?' wrote about it. Off the top of my head, the memorable quote of Mellor to Goldsmith was "Up your hacienda, Jimmy!"
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Post by greenhert on Oct 19, 2023 7:11:26 GMT
In reality the Referendum Party might have cost the Tories half a dozen seats, maybe only Castle Point and Harwich. The other 4 would be most likely Braintree, Taunton, Weston-super-Mare, and Winchester.
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Post by greenhert on Oct 21, 2023 20:21:11 GMT
Of the by-election winners who overturned majorities exceeding 10,000, 5 are named Sarah; in fact Sarah is the most common name in that particular list.
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