The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Sept 20, 2024 11:12:25 GMT
Believe me, we in Labour all knew very well that the July result was primarily a rejection of the Tories - a completely deserved and necessary one. But still, there is something unbalanced and frankly a bit disturbing about how the media in particular has turned on the new government so quickly - and for what *are* basically pretty trifling reasons. Does anybody here, even the most partisan Tory, think that the ridiculous Sue Gray nonsense is actually a real story?
The last government basically gave up on actually governing post-Brexit. This one is trying to do so. No it is not easy and mistakes will be made.
But I beg everyone, please get a bit of perspective.
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Post by timrollpickering on Sept 20, 2024 11:18:57 GMT
But still, there is something unbalanced and frankly a bit disturbing about how the media in particular has turned on the new government do quickly It is a refreshing change from the bootlicking of the early Blair years. And I don't remember the Conservatives getting such a soft ride (although this was muffled in the Coalition period when Nick Clegg was there to take all the kickings). Is it factually correct? If so then it's real. "Real" is otherwise one of the most overused words in politics, generally aiming to dismiss things rather than measure reality. |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Sept 20, 2024 11:25:11 GMT
It is "factually correct" and of totally zero importance in any respect whatsoever. And you know this perfectly well so don't pretend otherwise.
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Sept 20, 2024 11:25:50 GMT
The point about pedestrianising Oxford Street is that some locals may not like the idea now (the evidence suggests it is quite popular more generally) but once it happens most people will quickly get used to it and soon any idea of reversing the measure will be for the birds. If that had been Labour's only loss this week, I would not have been worried at all. I have known Oxford Street nearly all my life and seen the steady deterioration in quality of the shops during the whole of that time. It is now a worthless, trashy, chav street selling garbage to the poor end of the tourist trade. I have not used it for purchases for decades. It would be improved by turning it into a linnear green space with flowers, trees, benches and new small cafes, pubs, bistros, galleries, and stalls selling high quality craft work. Served by slow eclectic vehicles for the old, infirm, unsighted and disabled. |
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graham
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Post by graham on Sept 20, 2024 11:38:29 GMT
The Hartlepool by election in Spring 2021 persuaded me that Starmer lacks political antennae - he has no political brain. The WFP policy has been a fiasco which will not go away. No sign of a honeymoon for this Government at all - indeed it is already unpopular. By Autumn 2025 I expect it to be as unpopular as the last Tory government. Starmer & Reeves lack the political skills to dig themselves out - and to avoid hitting the rocks.
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Sept 20, 2024 11:43:34 GMT
What they *actually* lack is a strategy for dealing with an embeddedly and frankly irrationally hostile media. Are you really denying that the current unpopularity (such as it is) has been almost entirely created by said media?? The WFA proposal wasn't even *that* disliked when it was originally announced.
That certainly does need to change, and fast.
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Sept 20, 2024 11:47:06 GMT
But still, there is something unbalanced and frankly a bit disturbing about how the media in particular has turned on the new government do quickly It is a refreshing change from the bootlicking of the early Blair years. And I don't remember the Conservatives getting such a soft ride (although this was muffled in the Coalition period when Nick Clegg was there to take all the kickings). Is it factually correct? If so then it's real. "Real" is otherwise one of the most overused words in politics, generally aiming to dismiss things rather than measure reality. To the classical or old-fashioned philosophers (rather than the logical positivists and absurdist Oxford linguistics exponents) philosophy is entirely about understanding the true nature of everything including time, free will and reality. Those I have struggled with for many decades and I am certain that 'common sense concepts of reality' are virtually always incorrect and often absurdly wrong, and that the concept of there being any such thing as 'in the real world' is a sure indicator that one is conversing with an utter fool. |
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spqr
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Post by spqr on Sept 20, 2024 11:51:01 GMT
It is a refreshing change from the bootlicking of the early Blair years. And I don't remember the Conservatives getting such a soft ride (although this was muffled in the Coalition period when Nick Clegg was there to take all the kickings). Is it factually correct? If so then it's real. "Real" is otherwise one of the most overused words in politics, generally aiming to dismiss things rather than measure reality. To the classical or old-fashioned philosophers (rather than the logical positivists and absurdist Oxford linguistics exponents) philosophy is entirely about understanding the true nature of everything including time, free will and reality. Those I have struggled with for many decades and I am certain that 'common sense concepts of reality' are virtually always incorrect and often absurdly wrong, and that the concept of there being any such thing as 'in the real world' is a sure indicator that one is conversing with an utter fool. A phrase often used by a certain breed of Lib Dem, who always have this touching belief that they're living in it. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Sept 20, 2024 11:57:10 GMT
The Hartlepool by election in Spring 2021 persuaded me that Starmer lacks political antennae - he has no political brain. The WFP policy has been a fiasco which will not go away. No sign of a honeymoon for this Government at all - indeed it is already unpopular. By Autumn 2025 I expect it to be as unpopular as the last Tory government. Starmer & Reeves lack the political skills to dig themselves out - and to avoid hitting the rocks. John Major's interview the other evening was interesting. He felt that the parliamentary Conservative Party had been weakened by the reduction in business and military experience (the latter inevitable given history) and the PLP had been weakened by the reduction in MPs from a traditional working class background. Miner or railwaymen MPs might have taken a different view of the WFP policy than ex-SPADs and third sector workers? |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Sept 20, 2024 12:25:55 GMT
I think the post July figures are the most significant and we should probably reset the municipal cycle from then. The previous year/years were done from May to May so there is no reason to change. There are plenty of byelections coming up and, on this week's form at any rate, Labour are going to lose quite a few of them - so you won't need to worry about a few months before the GE "distorting" the figures too much. |
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graham
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Post by graham on Sept 20, 2024 12:50:07 GMT
The Hartlepool by election in Spring 2021 persuaded me that Starmer lacks political antennae - he has no political brain. The WFP policy has been a fiasco which will not go away. No sign of a honeymoon for this Government at all - indeed it is already unpopular. By Autumn 2025 I expect it to be as unpopular as the last Tory government. Starmer & Reeves lack the political skills to dig themselves out - and to avoid hitting the rocks. John Major's interview the other evening was interesting. He felt that the parliamentary Conservative Party had been weakened by the reduction in business and military experience (the latter inevitable given history) and the PLP had been weakened by the reduction in MPs from a traditional working class background. Miner or railwaymen MPs might have taken a different view of the WFP policy than ex-SPADs and third sector workers? That sounds interesting. I am sure that coming weeks and months we will hear a lot about 'Freebies for Keir Starmer just as 80% of OAPs are losing the WFP at a time of higher energy prices.' . It looks really horrible and Starmer lacks the political 'nous' to see that.
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Sept 20, 2024 12:50:50 GMT
FWIW, the swing to Labour had a good correlation with council election results (including by elections). The Labour performance in Darlington, Redcar and Stockton has been rather weak/spotty the past couple of elections. Conversely, Hartlepool has been a big success against the now previous Conservative/right wing majority, and in Durham they have been doing very well against a VERY diverse ‘not Labour’ coalition.
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Post by timrollpickering on Sept 20, 2024 12:57:37 GMT
John Major's interview the other evening was interesting. He felt that the parliamentary Conservative Party had been weakened by the reduction in business and military experience (the latter inevitable given history) and the PLP had been weakened by the reduction in MPs from a traditional working class background. Miner or railwaymen MPs might have taken a different view of the WFP policy than ex-SPADs and third sector workers? He's been saying similar since at least his memoir tour in 1999 so this isn't specifically targetted at any current parliamentarians. Broadly he feels there need to be more people coming into Parliament later in life with career experience to provide a better mix - but the candidate culture is increasingly going the other way and even the older entrants tend to be veteran activists and/or longstanding councillors (and devolved elected members). e.g. Sir Keir may be the record holder amongst Prime Ministers for the oldest entry to Parliament but he was also the founder of a Young Labour branch back in the day. |
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maxque
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Post by maxque on Sept 20, 2024 13:40:41 GMT
What they *actually* lack is a strategy for dealing with an embeddedly and frankly irrationally hostile media. Are you really denying that the current unpopularity (such as it is) has been almost entirely created by said media?? The WFA proposal wasn't even *that* disliked when it was originally announced. That certainly does need to change, and fast. What they lack is spine. If Starmer had any, Leveson II would be happening right now and the MP for Ilford South would be on the same benches as the MP for Islington North. |
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Post by sanders on Sept 20, 2024 13:43:05 GMT
But still, there is something unbalanced and frankly a bit disturbing about how the media in particular has turned on the new government do quickly. The media hasn't turned on Labour, Labour has just turned its back on the 'change' agenda we were all promised. This is the cancer of banal, lacklustre figures like Starmer whose only trade they peddle is anaemic status quo management bereft of any ideological commitment whatsoever. |
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Post by sanders on Sept 20, 2024 13:45:55 GMT
The point about pedestrianising Oxford Street is that some locals may not like the idea now (the evidence suggests it is quite popular more generally) but once it happens most people will quickly get used to it and soon any idea of reversing the measure will be for the birds. If that had been Labour's only loss this week, I would not have been worried at all. I have known Oxford Street nearly all my life and seen the steady deterioration in quality of the shops during the whole of that time. It is now a worthless, trashy, chav street selling garbage to the poor end of the tourist trade. I have not used it for purchases for decades. It would be improved by turning it into a linnear green space with flowers, trees, benches and new small cafes, pubs, bistros, galleries, and stalls selling high quality craft work. Served by slow eclectic vehicles for the old, infirm, unsighted and disabled. For once, I agree with everything you have said. Oxford Street is trashy. It's just garish crap candy stores - "fools and their money are easily parted" |
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Post by islington on Sept 20, 2024 14:03:56 GMT
I have known Oxford Street nearly all my life and seen the steady deterioration in quality of the shops during the whole of that time. It is now a worthless, trashy, chav street selling garbage to the poor end of the tourist trade. I have not used it for purchases for decades. It would be improved by turning it into a linnear green space with flowers, trees, benches and new small cafes, pubs, bistros, galleries, and stalls selling high quality craft work. Served by slow eclectic vehicles for the old, infirm, unsighted and disabled. For once, I agree with everything you have said. Oxford Street is trashy. It's just garish crap candy stores - "fools and their money are easily parted" Those are fronts for money laundering by organized crime. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Sept 20, 2024 14:24:30 GMT
It's just garish crap candy stores A lot fewer than there were in May 2022. |
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Post by sanders on Sept 20, 2024 14:33:16 GMT
It's just garish crap candy stores A lot fewer than there were in May 2022. Well done to the council there. Credit where credit's due. I know Adam Hug has been active on the issue for a long time. |
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Post by batman on Sept 20, 2024 15:59:32 GMT
The point about pedestrianising Oxford Street is that some locals may not like the idea now (the evidence suggests it is quite popular more generally) but once it happens most people will quickly get used to it and soon any idea of reversing the measure will be for the birds. If that had been Labour's only loss this week, I would not have been worried at all. I have known Oxford Street nearly all my life and seen the steady deterioration in quality of the shops during the whole of that time. It is now a worthless, trashy, chav street selling garbage to the poor end of the tourist trade. I have not used it for purchases for decades. It would be improved by turning it into a linnear green space with flowers, trees, benches and new small cafes, pubs, bistros, galleries, and stalls selling high quality craft work. Served by slow eclectic vehicles for the old, infirm, unsighted and disabled. your verdict is true for a great part of the street, although I wouldn't use the word chav. It does however still have some very good stores & I do occasionally have cause to visit John Lewis there, even though we have a large branch in Kingston which is just a short bus ride away. It is also a street with only one pub, and that is unforgivable. |
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