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Post by Penddu on Jun 28, 2024 17:24:34 GMT
It was definitely Cardiganshire.
I stand corrected. I thought it was like Monmouth being named after the county rather than a town. Thanks for pointing that out john07. When the tories reorganised Welsh local government in 1996, this was officially named Cardiganshire. The very first act of the new council was to change its name to Ceredigion. Same as Caernarfonshire & Merionethshire being renamed Gwynedd. The Welsh language names were already in common usage - the UK Government imposed English names were not. And before someone says... Traditional county names blah blah... The Welsh names had already been used for 1000 years earlier |
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Jun 28, 2024 17:34:06 GMT
Also back to the name.
The old seat was most definitely officially Cardiganshire but would have been referred to as Cardigan.
Much in the same way Cardiff South and Penarth is referred to as Cardiff South or by local campaigners in the LDs and Lab as “South”. (Con and Plaid locals feel free to jump in)
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Jun 28, 2024 17:35:47 GMT
And before someone says... Traditional county names blah blah... The Welsh names had already been used for 1000 years earlier Requests Domesday Book citation 😉 |
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Post by Penddu on Jun 28, 2024 17:39:17 GMT
And before someone says... Traditional county names blah blah... The Welsh names had already been used for 1000 years earlier Requests Domesday Book citation 😉 Domesday book didn't cover Wales.. |
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Jun 28, 2024 17:43:49 GMT
Requests Domesday Book citation 😉 Domesday book didn't cover Wales.. It covered part of what is currently Wales. But but original comment was made with a large chunk of jest 😉 |
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,774 
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Post by john07 on Jun 28, 2024 18:31:15 GMT
Domesday book didn't cover Wales.. It covered part of what is currently Wales. But but original comment was made with a large chunk of jest 😉 Maybe the term you are looking for is occupied Wales. I recall attending a weekend Folk Music event in Malvern where a Welsh band, maybe Ar Log, welcomed the audience to ‘Malvern or should we say occupied Wales’. |
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Foggy
Non-Aligned
Yn Ennill Yma
Posts: 6,135
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Post by Foggy on Jun 28, 2024 19:11:30 GMT
Cardigan Preseli sounds like something you'd find in M&S. Can someone explain why Cardigan is not allowed? Could we have dual language constituency names - you hear them in declarations in Cymraeg and English but the seat still has the Welsh name only. However, that rule isn't really consistent, since Motngomeryshire should be Sir Meldwyn (IIRC). Cardigan bay is a beautiful place. Ben Lake was at Trinity College, Oxford (like me) and the staff were cockahoop when he won - he's a normal guy with a working class background if I understand it correctly. This is the only seat where I'd vote Plaid. It'll be interesting to see how Aberystwyth votes this time. I guess Labour but Plaid must pull a lot of votes out of it - is Wales Trinity St David uni in this seat at all or am I imagining things? "M aldwyn" is the town of Montgomery so of course, logically the county is " Sir Faldwyn". I visited a school the other week in this constituency which had a sign up in a communal area with an old poem on it in which the county was referred to as " Sir Aberteifi" (i.e. the shire on the mouth of the river Teifi) but the modern accepted name for the county in both languages seems to be Ceredigion only. |
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Post by finsobruce on Jun 28, 2024 21:08:48 GMT
Why not? It used to be called that IIRC. And surely, you know I'm referring to the County of Cardigan rather than the poxy town of the same name in these parts.
It was definitely Cardiganshire.
"Lost Sheep found in Cardigan" |
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,774
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Post by john07 on Jun 28, 2024 21:11:58 GMT
It was definitely Cardiganshire.
I stand corrected. I thought it was like Monmouth being named after the county rather than a town. Thanks for pointing that out john07. It wisnea me! Try johng |
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Post by aberdarian on Jun 30, 2024 21:10:43 GMT
Cardigan Preseli sounds like something you'd find in M&S. Can someone explain why Cardigan is not allowed? Could we have dual language constituency names - you hear them in declarations in Cymraeg and English but the seat still has the Welsh name only. However, that rule isn't really consistent, since Motngomeryshire should be Sir Meldwyn (IIRC). Cardigan bay is a beautiful place. Ben Lake was at Trinity College, Oxford (like me) and the staff were cockahoop when he won - he's a normal guy with a working class background if I understand it correctly. This is the only seat where I'd vote Plaid. It'll be interesting to see how Aberystwyth votes this time. I guess Labour but Plaid must pull a lot of votes out of it - is Wales Trinity St David uni in this seat at all or am I imagining things? "M aldwyn" is the town of Montgomery so of course, logically the county is " Sir Faldwyn". I visited a school the other week in this constituency which had a sign up in a communal area with an old poem on it in which the county was referred to as " Sir Aberteifi" (i.e. the shire on the mouth of the river Teifi) but the modern accepted name for the county in both languages seems to be Ceredigion only. When I was briefly in Montgomery about a month ago I'm pretty sure the Welsh name on signs for the town was "Trefaldwyn". I also remember in school, back in the early '80s, seeing a Welsh language map of the 37 post-1974 local authority districts which had Montgomeryshire labelled as "Maldwyn". It was the first time I can remember being aware of the name (I went to an English medium school) but always stuck in my mind as I already had a slightly odd interest in administrative divisions, names and boundaries! Radnorshire was labelled as "Maesyfed" on the same map but I think that is also the Welsh name for the town of New Radnor. |
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Post by aberdarian on Jun 30, 2024 21:24:32 GMT
"M aldwyn" is the town of Montgomery so of course, logically the county is " Sir Faldwyn". I visited a school the other week in this constituency which had a sign up in a communal area with an old poem on it in which the county was referred to as " Sir Aberteifi" (i.e. the shire on the mouth of the river Teifi) but the modern accepted name for the county in both languages seems to be Ceredigion only. When I was briefly in Montgomery about a month ago I'm pretty sure the Welsh name on signs for the town was "Trefaldwyn". I also remember in school, back in the early '80s, seeing a Welsh language map of the 37 post-1974 local authority districts which had Montgomeryshire labelled as "Maldwyn". It was the first time I can remember being aware of the name (I went to an English medium school) but always stuck in my mind as I already had a slightly odd interest in administrative divisions, names and boundaries! Radnorshire was labelled as "Maesyfed" on the same map but I think that is also the Welsh name for the town of New Radnor. It seems that the official English name of the post-1974 district was "Montgomery" but the council decided to add "shire" in 1986. |
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Post by carolus on Jun 30, 2024 21:32:12 GMT
Could this be the Greens' Welsh seat? My gut tells me that would be Cardiff Central, but the uni her could help them do well. Or do they all vote for LAB or PC? Between 1992 and 1997 Cynog Dafis represented this constituency as a joint PC-Green MP. I wasn't aware of that - was that the last time we had a joint description MP that wasn't Labour-Coop? |
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johng
Labour
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Post by johng on Jun 30, 2024 21:42:24 GMT
I was looking at Welsh candidate's Facebook pages just now and was surprised to see Cynog Dafis out knocking doors on Ben Lake's page. Was surprised to see he was just 86. Incidentally:  |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jun 30, 2024 22:01:15 GMT
To the best of my memory, the local pact in Dyfed in 1992 was something for which the local branch of the Green Party did not seek, and certainly did not receive, official endorsement.
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,774
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Post by john07 on Jun 30, 2024 22:02:17 GMT
Between 1992 and 1997 Cynog Dafis represented this constituency as a joint PC-Green MP. I wasn't aware of that - was that the last time we had a joint description MP that wasn't Labour-Coop? David Renton was elected in 1964 and 1966 as a National Liberal and Conservative candidate. Others including John Nott stood as a National Liberal on a similar basis before the National Liberals finally shut down. You could also add ( at a pinch): Conservative and Unionist? Social Democratic and Liberal Alliance? Social Democratic and Labour Party? |
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,905
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Post by YL on Jul 1, 2024 6:50:52 GMT
To the best of my memory, the local pact in Dyfed in 1992 was something for which the local branch of the Green Party did not seek, and certainly did not receive, official endorsement. What was on the ballot paper? There were also Plaid/Green pacts in other Welsh constituencies, e.g. Monmouth and Torfaen. |
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Jul 1, 2024 6:54:13 GMT
To the best of my memory, the local pact in Dyfed in 1992 was something for which the local branch of the Green Party did not seek, and certainly did not receive, official endorsement. What was on the ballot paper? There were also Plaid/Green pacts in other Welsh constituencies, e.g. Monmouth and Torfaen. I’m not aware that it appeared on the ballot. The six seats were: Blaenau Gwent, Ceredigion & Pembroke North, Islwyn, Monmouth, Newport West and Torfaen. Plaid provided the candidate in five of them with the Greens providing the candidate in Monmouth for the ‘91 by-election and the following general. |
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graham
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,344
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Post by graham on Jul 1, 2024 11:31:41 GMT
I wasn't aware of that - was that the last time we had a joint description MP that wasn't Labour-Coop? David Renton was elected in 1964 and 1966 as a National Liberal and Conservative candidate. Others including John Nott stood as a National Liberal on a similar basis before the National Liberals finally shut down. You could also add ( at a pinch): Conservative and Unionist? Social Democratic and Liberal Alliance? Social Democratic and Labour Party? Heseltine also fought Gower in 1959 as a National Liberal. |
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Post by johnloony on Jul 1, 2024 13:59:15 GMT
Between 1992 and 1997 Cynog Dafis represented this constituency as a joint PC-Green MP. I wasn't aware of that - was that the last time we had a joint description MP that wasn't Labour-Coop? There was a “Plaid Cymru and the Green Party” in one of the by-elections a while ago. There are four joint English Democrats / UKIP candidates this time. About 20 years ago there were various joint Green / Liberal candidates in local elections in e.g. Liverpool or wherever. Robin Page was a joint Referendum Party / UKIP candidate in Winchester in 1997. I think there have been loads of examples, particularly in local elections. |
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Post by carolus on Jul 1, 2024 14:08:17 GMT
I wasn't aware of that - was that the last time we had a joint description MP that wasn't Labour-Coop? There was a “Plaid Cymru and the Green Party” in one of the by-elections a while ago. There are four joint English Democrats / UKIP candidates this time. About 20 years ago there were various joint Green / Liberal candidates in local elections in e.g. Liverpool or wherever. Robin Page was a joint Referendum Party / UKIP candidate in Winchester in 1997. I think there have been loads of examples, particularly in local elections. Those aren't MPs! I accept that "joint description" is a bit vague before the advent of modern candidate descriptions, but "MPs who were expressly part of two parties" can be substituted if necessary. |
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